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Angel & Faith # 5 Issue Discussion Thread(Spoilers)

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  • Angel & Faith # 5 Issue Discussion Thread(Spoilers)

    Opening the issue thread.

    Leyki has her spoilery review up.

  • #2
    I've read this and quite enjoyed it. This issue was dedicted to Angel finding out about the new breed of day-vampires and setting up a future storyline which links up to a fire at a convent and an incident from Angel's past. It was good to see the Aunts again, who are very resourceful in dealing with the Vampire threat. I'm not sure about Angel's voice in all of this, since I've found his characterization a little off this season. He's got both Nadira and Brandt giving him missions and seems a little more hapless than usual. Where as he seemed to have all the knowledge last season, he seems rather at sea in this. Maybe this is intentional. No Faith, who I kind of missed. I think that I'd rather have Angel and Faith working together than this split, which could last for the whole Season, for all I know. Seeing Angel surrounded by characters I don't know very well, isn't working terribly well,for me anyway. I do think that Angel would have notified Buffy or one of the Scoobies about his discovery of the day-vamps. He rules it out, but it kind of seems important to let them know, but then, they haven't been in contact with him either - and Faith knows about them, so I'm not sure why she wouldn't have let him know. Strange ! But then this lack of exchange of info has happened before and I would imagine that it's here this time to increase Angel's sense of isolation ? Anyway, as I say, I enjoyed the read but i'm not as hooked on A&F as I was last season.

    Thought the art was ok.


    • #3
      I have Angel & Faith # 5 titled,"Old Habits."

      I thought this was a very solid one and done story that introduced Angel to the new form of vampires and teased potential new plots with Angel's nightmare and the convent fire.

      I actually wasn't bothered or surprised there was no Faith story this issue.Quite honestly I've been expecting at some point we would get issues with just Angel or just Faith to switch things up a bit.I'm sure Faith will be getting a full issue to herself too at some point.

      It was nice seing the aunts again and I hope they continue to occasionally appear.Also good to see Brandt again I like the idea of Angel having a police contact like he used to with Kate or as Buffy currently has with Dowling.It just makes sense to me especially with how known the supernatural world is now to the public.

      This was a good way to introduce the new rules vampires to Angel and I do like the little Buffy mention with Angel wanting to call Buffy about it but admitting he isn't ready to face her yet and she probably isn't ready to face him either.It's actually a nice tease since we pretty much know now that Buffy and Angel will interact at some point later this season.

      Overall a nice solid issue.


      Given it more thought,Maybe if Angel isn't ready to talk to Buffy yet,he could make Giles and Willow his contacts once everybody's living situation is established in the next Buffy arc.


      • #4
        I liked it also. I actually think Angel's characterization was great. He should be more hapless than usual -- after Twilight he shouldn't be sure of himself at all. And while he did manage to resurrect Giles, it came with consequences (of course), and it seems like he's finally reassessing the nature of his own agency. I like that they make clear that season 9 for Angel was largely a project of denial and at the end of the day it didn't really help him deal with his own issues. It was an interesting choice to leave Faith out of this issue entirely. I think it's a way of underscoring Angel's fundamental isolation at this point. The loss of Faith mirrors his loss of faith in himself. The mention that he feels he can't talk to Buffy was good, also -- finally a sense that he's embarrassed about what happened, and expects she would be too. All and all, an Angel adrift because he's being more honest with himself is an Angel I can get behind.

        Granted, while I enjoy every issue of A&F as reading it, the story dribbles out of my brain almost immediately. I don't feel much momentum with the story. But the individual character moments tend to be quite good.

        Also very much enjoyed the aunts here.
        "I don't want to be this good-looking and athletic. We all have crosses to bear." Banner Credit: Vampmogs


        • #5
          I liked how low key the issue felt, really felt like it could have been an episode of the show. I miss the days when a single vampire can be a threat of an episode. The fight and struggle with a single vampire was clumsy (in a good way) and realistic. I much prefer seeing the aunts bash a vamp over the head with a frypan than seeing Willow shooting energy beams and dusting vamps left right and centre.

          I liked that the construction was an obstacle for Angel. Simple things like that add a layer of realism to the situation.

          Stoney, neither Angel nor the new vamp (forgot his name) had claws or red eyes in this issue.

          I wonder what the dreams about the fire are foreshadowing.

          I thought it was lame that Brandt knew to find Angel in that bar. Since when does Angel drink alcohol? Is his previous alcoholism as Liam being touched on? Why would Angel choose to drink in a demon bar? Are these people/demons residents that were transformed because of magic town?


          • #6
            I thought this was an OK issue and I enjoyed the read. I really do like the tone VG is going for with Angel's story.

            It introduced the day vamps to Angel but I felt the jump in assumption that vamps as a whole had yet again changed wasn't really earned from him seeing one incident. I also think that people are far too distrustful of strangers for Parnell's plan of carrying parcels to be a great repeated approach. But maybe that is just me.

            I agree that they are heavily emphasising Angel's isolation here, including the drinking, he seems very worn down. I suppose he could have gone there to keep his ear to the ground but it doesn't seem to be played that way taking it at face value. The sting operation with the aunts was great for showing that he is feeling that way without complete isolation as well. This isn't something that is caused by a circumstantial loneliness. Not completely anyway. It was also great for keeping the detective tone of Angel's portion of the title going.

            The thing I found the most interesting about the issue was Angel's dream. His flashback seemed to go into a more modern scene at the end. Considering Angel was cursed in 1898 (I think), I'm not sure fire engines had even stopped being horse drawn at that time (obviously I'm assuming his flashbacked nun attack was pre soul). Even if they had, the next step up was some sort of car-esque set up. So, as he says, I'm not sure 'whatever that was' because the dream wasn't pure memory and this then mixed with the newspaper articles at the end seems to be showing him as having precognitive dreams.

            Everything is so up in the air - magic town, new magic, the first slayer handing out favours - I like the intrigues.
            Last edited by Stoney; 06-08-14, 11:58 PM.


            • #7
              Stoney, agreed that Angel leading about the new vampire rules wasn't earned. He fought. *one* new vampire. From Angel's POV, surely it would be more reasonable to assume that one dude was an anomoly rather than the whole species changing. Buffy's POV seems more believable because she fought multiple new vampires who all had those abilities, Vicki had her whole speech on evolution and Willow confirmed that the transformations weren't magic based. With Angel's new vamp, his first thought should be that maybe this one guy has magic abilities or he's a side affect of Magic Town. I guess they did have to introduce the same idea with vampires in A&F thet they'd already shown in BtVS, but it still felt like a pretty big assumption the writers just wanted us to buy and move on.


              • #8
                Totally. It would have been far more realistic for Angel to have thought there was fallout further than they had been allowing for from magic town and that to have been a real concern. Or for him to have wondered if new spells or such were being made from the pure magic people were gathering that he just lost a whole stockpile of. Heck, for him to even have wondered about another gem of amara-esque situation would have made more sense than him suddenly concluding that vampire mythology as a whole had yet again changed.


                • #9

                  Angel & Faith Season 10 #5

                  by Greg McElhatton, Reviewer

                  "Angel & Faith Season 10" #5 is really better titled "Angel Season 10" #5, since Faith's nowhere to be seen. But in a book where one of the things that's been lacking is that interplay between Angel and Faith, I have to admit it: Victor Gischler and Derlis Santacruz's new issue is the best of the series to date.

                  In many ways, the main purpose of "Angel & Faith Season 10" #5 feels to catch the series up with the recent revelations on new vampires that we've seen in "Buffy the Vampire Slayer Season 10," now that more and more are showing up with changed abilities and powers. As a result, people who have read those issues as well might at first be a little disappointed when they figure out that this is the main thrust of the comic.

                  But here's the thing: it works in part because Gischler brings back Lavinia and Sophie, two characters that should have been incredibly annoying in the previous "Angel & Faith" series, but in fact managed to repeatedly steal the show. They do the same thing here, teaming up with Angel to try and track down the new vampire that's preying on lone shoppers in need of assistance. The sequence with Lavinia and Sophie going up against the vampire is both funny and also enjoyable, because despite all of their bickering and snark, Gischler doesn't lose track of the fact that they're supposed to be more than a bit competent. These two ladies understand the world of the occult quite well, and Gischler uses that to the story's advantage.

                  This isn't a complete throwaway issue either; what looks like a strange prologue to the issue is mentioned again in an oblique way in the conclusion, enough that it's clear that this is a lead-in to a future storyline. With no sign at all of Faith this issue and her (completely separate for now) plotline, it's nice to know that this is doing more than just bringing in the new-and-improved vampires to London. All in all, it feels like Gischler's settling in well into "Angel & Faith Season 10."

                  It doesn't hurt that Derlis Santacruz provides guest pencils this month (along with Andy Owens on inks), and the book looks pretty darn nice. Santacruz and Owens remind me a lot of artists like Paul Pelletier, with a rounded, solid form that feels filled out but not too much so either. I love Lavinia's perturbed expression thanks to the artists -- you can just feel her irritation blistering off of the page -- and the fight between the ladies and the vampire has a lot of weight because of the art. You really get the feeling that vampire are dangerous here; you can see the two physically struggling against the vampire's supernatural strength, for instance, as he throttles Lavinia with one hand while stopping her from staking him with the other. I also love the way that Santacruz tackles the vampire turning into mist and returning; with the trail of mist behind him, it reminds me almost of a genie whizzing through the air, and that's a good visual depiction. All in all, it's a good look for the book, one that I'd like to see back sometime soon.

                  It's great to see both Buffyverse series on track, rather than playing the "which is the good series this time?" game. Gischler's moving the book alone well, and the next time Santacruz needs to step in for guest pencils, I'm game. If you haven't picked up the new "Angel & Faith Season 10" series, this is as good a place as any to give a sample and see for yourself what's inside.


                  • #10
                    A&F 10.05 bullet points and analysis

                    * First off, the artwork is excellent.

                    * Angelus’s bite even gives pleasure to a nun.

                    - Even in the flashbacks of Angelus and Darla biting and drinking each other during sex, there’s so indication that they actually got sexual pleasure from the biting – as least nowhere near what is shown with Angel to Willow in A&F S9 and now this flashback with Angelus and the nun.

                    The Bite in “Graduation Day Part II” (B 3.22) could make sense because Buffy was in love with Angel and Angel was on top of her between her legs. Willow was never attracted to Angel; this woman in the flashback is a nun and saw Angelus’ game face and he’s killing her when he’s drinking from her.

                    - We already know that Angel used to kill nuns. Drusilla’s is the worst thing he’s done to an individual and we’ve already seen the flashbacks of that. And killing nuns doesn’t compare to his wanting the Earth and all its life destroyed merely so that SuperBuffy and he could stay in Twilight.

                    * Angel seems to have a relatively nice apartment, especially considering how expensive London is. He’s certainly living better than Buffy is. Over in BtVS 10.06,
                    the Scoobies need to move into a formerly ‘haunted’ apartment building that they ‘de-haunted’. Spike is living at Andrew’s house and sleeping on a futon.
                    Yet Angel continues to live relatively well and there’s no indication that Angel even donated to the Red Cross after BtVS 8.39.

                    * Wow, Angel is rude to Inspector Brandt. Instead of being grateful that he isn’t dust, Angel decides to be arrogant and act superior to Brandt.

                    * I reason it doesn’t make much sense that the world doesn’t know about the New Vampires. Social media exists in the Buffyverse and the New Vampires ask if people want to become New Vampires.

                    It’s possible that simply people in Magic Town haven’t been informed of the New Vampires because the UK government and media probably hope that if there were any New Vampires arriving that maybe they will simply go be in Magic Town; although, that doesn’t make much sense either.

                    * Angel had a relatively very old, crappy, and small TV. And he has a DVD player instead of a Blu Ray player.

                    * Why didn’t Sophie and Vin simply to magic against the New Vampire?

                    * I don’t recall a New Vampire before this one being shown to be able to both mist and turn into a bat.

                    * Why was Angel using a sword against the New Vampire?

                    * Lavinia used a lighter and hairspray combo on the New Vampire’s head and within less than a few minutes, the New Vampire showed no damage to his face and hair.

                    It seems the New Vampires are also more fire resistant than pre-BtVS 8.39 vampires.

                    * Why would Angel consider calling Buffy instead of calling Spike or even Willow?

                    Angel knows that Spike and Willow are at least somewhat okay with Angel. Spike even came running when Angel called him for help.


                    • #11
                      All caught up

                      I’ve read A&F S10 up to and including A&F 10.11 and so will not address things already known.

                      Here’s my bullet points and analysis so I don’t repeat myself: It’s post #10 on the first page.

                      * First off, Lavinia Fairweather and Sophronia Fairweather are Rupert Giles’s GREAT AUNTS. Most posters continue to call them the “aunts”.

                      * I actually assumed that Cursed Angel assumed that Buffy and Co. already knew about the New Vampires. If Cursed Angel actually didn’t think Buffy and Co. knew about the New Vampires, it’s deplorable of him to not call any of Buffy, Willow, and Spike about the New Vampires; Cursed Angel not wanting to deal with his standing with Buffy is no excuse to not inform Buffy and Co. of the New Vampires situation.

                      Shade of Pale

                      [Cursed Angel] seems a little more hapless than usual
                      Huh? Not only has Nadira forgiven Cursed Angel, she seems to want to be his BFF. How is Cursed Angel “unlucky or unfortunate” in A&F S10 compared to how he’s lives much of his life – including those around 30 years of being a homeless bum.


                      * Cursed Angel’s having a contact in the London Police Department doesn’t make much sense unless the United Kingdom doesn’t know what Angel did in BtVS S8. What would actually make sense is that Angel was dusted sometime after BtVS 8.39.

                      I don’t remember Kate Lockley being Angel’s buddy even in Hell-LA (if that’s canon).

                      Vampire in Rug

                      * Cursed Angel drinks alcohol. I don’t ever remember the Buffyvere or Joss Whedon saying that Angel is an alcoholic.