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Angel & Faith #17 Discussion Thread (SPOILERS)

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  • Angel & Faith #17 Discussion Thread (SPOILERS)

    Two more reviews

    http://www.bleedingcool.com/2012/12/...-and-faith-17/


    http://leykimayri.wordpress.com/2012...rt-2/#more-285

    If you want to ask anything, I'll be around for some minutes.
    And I hope that nobody was expecting that that was a soulless Giles, right?
    It's the demon, animating the bodies..

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  • #2
    It's Eyegon animating Giles? Do we get an explanation for why Eyegon is still around? This issue is out this week, right?

    Comment


    • #3
      No, as far as I remember, there is no explanation of why or how he's alive.
      But he is able to animate multiple bodies at the same time, together with people who have felt unconscious.
      Now that I think about it, there was something in a flashback, they were trying to get rid of him and he said that he'll be back because they have his mark now and they belong to him, body and soul (young Giles and his friends).
      So the last part of the soul that Angel needs is the one that Eyegon has, he wasn't surprised that he is alive, he just didn't know where to find him, until they found out that Ethan is alive, which can't be happening because he died last season. So they searched for properties belonging to Ethan, and they are heading there (Angel and Faith).
      The dead slayer comes back to life, but of course it's not her.
      Last panel gives us Eyegon and also Ethan with a bullet in his head.
      So, Giles and Ethan belong to the demon, body and soul.
      As for how the demon is alive, there is no explanation in this issue.

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      • #4
        I like the shout out to Olivia. Nice touch.

        Comment


        • #5
          Originally posted by zianna View Post
          So, Giles and Ethan belong to the demon, body and soul.
          And Angel too? Because he let Eyghon inside himself back in The Dark Age? Could this be just Angel trying to avoid having his own soul in in demons possession? What about Jenny Calender's?

          Nice touch with the "twist" - brutal reminder of Angel killing Giles (and Jenny)
          "Gunn dies, Illyria Survives, Spike shanshus, Angel looses an arm and Xander looses an arm too, which is odd because he wasn't even there."
          Joss Whedon at the High Stakes convention - 2004

          Comment


          • #6
            Originally posted by ubi4soft View Post
            And Angel too? Because he let Eyghon inside himself back in The Dark Age? Could this be just Angel trying to avoid having his own soul in in demons possession? What about Jenny Calender's?

            Nice touch with the "twist" - brutal reminder of Angel killing Giles (and Jenny)
            No, Ethan and Giles had summoned the demon and had made a tattoo with the demon's mark on them. The first time they got rid of the demon, he said that they belong to him now body and soul. And we know he has a part from Giles's soul, according to Angel.
            Angel was just a temporary vessel.

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            Comment


            • #7
              Well, I guess it's best that Angel be possessed by something (especially when things go pear shaped. That way they can claim it wasn't him, but something walking around in an Angel suit. Y'know, like they do every time Angel screws up in order to to tell the audience that holding him accountable for anything would be mean on their parts...

              (Which brings to mind, don't you love how they slipped in this issue that it hadn't been Angel but Twilight in control. It makes me want to go back and find the interview where Allie was claiming that the comic was 'more mature' than the show because 'this time' Angel wasn't hijacked. Are Allie's pants retroactively singed by retcon?)
              Last edited by shipperx; 19-12-12, 07:25 PM.
              Learning Experience: "...one of those things that says, "You know that thing you just did? Don't do that.”
              ~Douglas Adams

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              • #8
                I didn't like the issue. Eyghon not only happens to be alive somehow but for some unexplained reason has a massive power boost in the "magicless" world. Faith says Angel owes her, so she swears him to do the resurrection properly...something he already intended doing anyway. I mean, Faith had hesitated about this all season long, other characters have warned her, now suddenly she is more convinced in the soundness of the idea than even Angel?

                Angel "checked out" the mortuary records and found out they had no criminal records or money problems. How the hell did he manage to do that? Break into the police computers? I know he did detective work in LA but it was more of a "we will break and door and rough up the suspects" kind of thing than checking records. Later they find where Ethan lives in the internet - a little too convenient. Angel also immediately guesses Eyghon must be possessing Ethan, again way too easy.

                Best thing about the issue is again Nadira. I loved how she was suspicious of "Giles" and the "resurrected" Marianne. Buffy can learn a thing or two from her about trusting the likes of Severin or Koh. Let's hope that when Angel inevitably ends up saving her, she won't be pathetically grateful and become his BFF.

                So I guess the idea is that Eyghon possessed Ethan when he died. And he somehow escaped a secret prison. Lucky for Buffy she has the mark of Eyghon removed or she would have come back after S5 as Eyghon!Buffy.
                Xander: "Willow, you are the best human ever! I adore you! Well, that's the cookies talking, but you rock!"

                Comment


                • #9
                  Originally posted by Jack Shaftoe View Post
                  I didn't like the issue. Eyghon not only happens to be alive somehow but for some unexplained reason has a massive power boost in the "magicless" world. Faith says Angel owes her, so she swears him to do the resurrection properly...something he already intended doing anyway. I mean, Faith had hesitated about this all season long, other characters have warned her, now suddenly she is more convinced in the soundness of the idea than even Angel?

                  Angel "checked out" the mortuary records and found out they had no criminal records or money problems. How the hell did he manage to do that? Break into the police computers? I know he did detective work in LA but it was more of a "we will break and door and rough up the suspects" kind of thing than checking records. Later they find where Ethan lives in the internet - a little too convenient. Angel also immediately guesses Eyghon must be possessing Ethan, again way too easy.

                  Best thing about the issue is again Nadira. I loved how she was suspicious of "Giles" and the "resurrected" Marianne. Buffy can learn a thing or two from her about trusting the likes of Severin or Koh. Let's hope that when Angel inevitably ends up saving her, she won't be pathetically grateful and become his BFF.

                  So I guess the idea is that Eyghon possessed Ethan when he died. And he somehow escaped a secret prison. Lucky for Buffy she has the mark of Eyghon removed or she would have come back after S5 as Eyghon!Buffy.
                  Well it's not the end of the arc, it's the middle of it. If there are any explanations about Eyghon, surely they wouldn't be in this issue that he was he cliffhanger, but in the following ones, right? Lets give Gage the benefit of the doubt until the arc is over.

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                  • #10
                    I have mixed feelings. Good issue, not quite as good as the last one. I think my main objection here is...

                    ... wait for it...

                    ... waaaaaaait for it...

                    ... that of course it makes total sense that Eyghon has been reinvented as this whole new, much more dangerous, Agent Smith-level problem after the putative "end of magic". I mean, of course. FFS.

                    *Ahem*

                    And, a second but lesser FFS to the change in Eyghon in general. That would have had me all "wait, what?" even before the Seed. Now, that said, since the Agent Smith similarity is obvious to anybody that saw the Matrix sequels, I hereby demand they use this gag at some point during the iterations of various Eyghonites.

                    I mean, once you accept and set aside the BS parts above, it's actually a pretty clever and engaging little plot, using Ethan to steal Giles, the general continuity fill-in about Ethan and, astoundingly, candid reference to Angel's time as Twilight.

                    Also, between Nadira, Sophronia, and Lavinia, and even to a lesser extent Alastair, I think we can safely say, with authority, which side of the Dark Horse house of Buffyverse creative control has a handle on how to work in new characters and make them interesting and eventually essential without them being intrusive. It's not even close. Every AnF OC has been better done than every Season 9 OC, period.

                    Really happy to see Faith blow up at Angel. Mixed feelings on her deciding to double down on Giles' resurrection, though. It's too much like the old Faith who does what she wants because it hurts to much to be the one who has to make the tough decisions.
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                    • #11
                      Maybe he will come up with some semi-plausible explanation but I think it's a bit of a waste to use Eyghon for yet another zombie horde attack. We have already way too much of this. Eyghon was interesting in The Dark Age because he a very personal villain for Giles and allowed the Scoobies to learn about Giles's past. Here he seems to be mostly useful for the fake out with Giles and allowing Angel to finish his quest. Could be interesting if Angel has to kill "Giles" once again but we wouldn't need the army of zombies for this.
                      Xander: "Willow, you are the best human ever! I adore you! Well, that's the cookies talking, but you rock!"

                      Comment


                      • #12
                        I was reading the comments in Georgia's site, and she says that she will be hosting an interview with Gage next month. And a second one, but she doesn't say with who.
                        http://leykimayri.wordpress.com/2012...rt-2/#comments

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                        • #13
                          Faith turning on Angel was actually a pretty dislikable moment for her. It was Faith's decision to support Angel and to keep her support of him from the slayers. Faith pretty much proved that if her lies worked out and the slayers never found out that she was buddy-buddy with Angel, Angel never would have heard this rant from Faith.

                          It's not Faith genuinely recanting her previous position that Angel's capability for redemption goes beyond his crimes as Twilight itself- and instead the havoc that her redeeming Angel does to her slayer-rep. It's not Faith deciding that Giles's resurrection is morally objectionable. This is nothing more than a temper tantrum of Faith that her precious image with the slayers is compromised.

                          I'm pretty critical on Buffy for hiding Angel at the start of S3. However, Faith's conduct gives me new respect for the fact that Buffy owned her decision to hide Angel and didn't turn around to yell at Angel in Revelations for costing her friends' lives and respect because Buffy decided to hide him.

                          Comment


                          • #14
                            I have Angel & Faith # 17,"Death and Consequences Part II of IV."

                            I thought this was a strong issue overall.The Giles alive reveal is pretty much what was speculated on.Eyghon animating Giles's corpse.But it was very freaky knowing what's inside Giles's body especially the scene where Gilesghon shows off his broken neck,

                            Eyghon is also animating Ethan's corpse thus explaining the Steve Morris cover.Eyghon is basically possessing as many bodies as he can now including Nadira's slayer friend.Props to Nadira for asking questions and being suspicious.Unfortunately too late.This issue gave her more personality than just angry and troubled.So great to see that.

                            Also loved the Ripper flashback and how that sets up what's going on in the present.

                            Faith's blowup at Angel has been building all season.It wasn't a question of if it would happen but when.And Angel totally owns that and realizes that he owes her now too and will do whatever she asks.I'll admit I was surprised initially that what she wants is for Angel to finish the job of bringing Giles back.I thought she would want him to drop the Giles resurrection plan.But thinking about it in retrospect,I can understand why she wants Angel to finish his plan.

                            1)Faith invested so much in this.She lost the respect of her slayers and this has taken a toll on her so understandably she wants Angel to finish it so everything she invested and lost won't be for nothing.

                            2)Whether it's smart or not.Whether it's too dangerous,Faith wants Giles back too and if there is a chance,she'll take it.

                            So in retrospect,I think I get why the only thing Faith wants from Angel now to pay her back is this.I do think Angel & Faith will be going there separate ways at the end of the season and we'll have a different second monthly in season 10

                            Even though it was exposition,I really enjoyed the scenes of Angel,Faith and Giles's aunts gathering the info of where Giles's body is and who/what is behind it.It was written lively IMO.

                            Of course Eyghon has the last piece of Giles's soul.

                            Also liked the little bit of Angel and Faith realizing it's Eyghon and the Aunts having no idea what they're talking about.

                            Another great issue.

                            Comment


                            • #15
                              I may have been too harsh on Faith, depending on where she genuinely is.

                              One of two things is happening:

                              a) Faith doesn't really want to cut ties with Angel. In her heart of hearts, she feels more loyalty to Angel than to the slayers- exemplified by her choices. She also may be addicted to the intrigue of having a Secret Friend and Helping the Hopeless.

                              However, she throws a temper tantrum because she had to give up the slayers for her relationship with Angel.

                              OR

                              b) Faith would *like* to cut ties with Angel. She is realizing that she values her relationships with the slayers more than her relationship with Angel. Heck, maybe Faith is realizing that some people can't be helped and Angel is one of it. However, Faith is so determined to resurrect Giles that she'll double-down on the resurrection and *then*, cut ties with Angel once Giles is alive.

                              If A is true, Faith is being completely unlikable. If B is true, I have much more sympathy for Faith. It could be a mixture of A and B.

                              It would be easier for Faith to enjoy being Lady of the Manor with her inherited property, cut ties with Angel entirely and grovel to the slayers, perhaps using her money to buy friends.

                              However, Faith is further undermining her relationship with the slayers, surrendering more money and property than she ever hoped to see to a potentially resurrected Giles and even risking that he could change the will, on seeing how she's been associating with Angel. I don't know if Faith is thinking that far down the road on her inheritance but we can take the fact that she doesn't seem to be considering it as a strong gesture of adoration of Giles or stupidity.

                              If Faith's choices are more about her love of Giles than her addiction to being Angel's Evil Anonymous Sponsor or even her caring for Angel, I'm more sympathetic to Faith. However, I do still see her rant to Angel as a tantrum that she lost her reputation among the slayers more than a Righteous Talking-To.

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