Announcement

Collapse
1 of 2 < >

No HTML

HTML is turned off for security reasons.

Please do not use html in your posts or messages. If you are copy and pasting something from another website and you are having problems with it showing, then it may have html in it. This could be in the form of a website link or a viewable image or an emoji or a special chacter. I am not sure this is the reason we have errors posting.

Some html code can be simply swapped with our Bulletin Board code by changing the greater than/ less than signs with bracket signs. Other BB code needs to done using the buttons in the advanced post editor.
2 of 2 < >

Home Page

The home page address has changed to: http://buffyforums.net/forums/
Please update your bookmark. Otherwise, the home page does not show you are logged in and/or will not let you type into the log in box in the top right. The link at Buffyforums.net to the forums has not yet been updated. So you will experience the error when you enter the forum through that link.
See more
See less

Why is Dru not dust?

Collapse
X
 
  • Filter
  • Time
  • Show
Clear All
new posts

  • #31
    It’s frankly deplorable that Darla got to be redeemed, that Angel gets chance after chance to be redeemed, that Spike (who wanted to be a vampire) got to be redeemed, and yet the vampire who was going to be a nun and who is only evil because Angel made her crazy and turned her is talked about by some posters as if she should be dusted, and be dusted by Angel no less.
    I find it extremely funny how you get all indignant about Angel killing people and yet so defensive every time the idea that someone should stop Drusilla from killing more people comes up. Or how you insist that Spike or Buffy would have been right to kill Wood and Giles after Lies My Parents Told Me but dusting Drusilla is out of the question. Drusilla being a nun before becoming a vampire isn't any consolation to the thousands of people she has murdered and would keep on murdering unless someone stops her.

    And no matter how many times you say it, canon still holds that Angel or Willow or any other person with a soul is far more likely to be redeemed than Drusilla is, so your argument that killing her would be as (un)justified as killing them is wrong.
    Xander: "Willow, you are the best human ever! I adore you! Well, that's the cookies talking, but you rock!"

    Comment


    • #32
      Originally posted by MikeB View Post
      Whenever I see such a thing it makes me wonder whether the poster somehow thinks Angel vs. Spike is somehow like Glory vs. Spike or Illyria vs. Spike.
      Oh believe me, I wonder the same thing about you and your complete and utter bias towards Spike. You are completely incapable of judging things in an objective manner.

      This is an A&F thread, so "Destiny" (A 5.08) already happened and Spike later on informed Angel that Spike's been rusty (meaning he was rusty in his fight with Angel).
      But wait! Spike's a known liar so why should we take anything he says at face value!? Isn't that the line you always use against Angel?

      Angel may or may not suspect that Spike may have actually been able to hurt a full-powered Illyria.
      So in other words you're just making stuff up. Angel is never shown "suspecting" this even once so I'm going to completely dismiss this as another one of your fanwanks.

      As-is, Spike in "Destiny" clearly wasn't at full power until much later; unless one wants to argue that Angel is stronger and more powerful than Glorificus and that's why Spike's bruises and such from "Destiny" lasted longer than the torture from "Intervention" (5.18) had.
      If it were the other way around I guarantee it this is exactly what you'd be saying about Spike. Regardless, you have no canonical proof whatsoever that Spike wasn't at his "full power" during that fight so, sorry, but I guess Angel really did just wound Spike badly. You can come up with any fanwank that you like but despite what you like to believe, it's not "canon" and it's not going to convince anyone.

      Spike has his spaceship. That spaceship killed a bunch of demons simply by crashing into them. It could crash into Angel and dust him.
      You think Angel would be scared of Spike because of his bug ship? Angel frequently took on W&H who have far more resources at their disposal then Spike's bug ship. Heck, they CREATED Spike's bugship! Angel has never been one to shy away from an opponent just because the odds aren't stacked in his favour.

      With the help of his Fang Gang, Illyria, and Spike.
      What difference does this make? Angel made the plan and Angel designated himself to take on Hamilton alone. Hamilton beat Illyria to a pulp and Illyria was by far their strongest warrior. So the idea that Angel's brave enough to take on Hamilton but too cowardly to take on Spike is ridiculous.

      What choice did he have? Angel also had no idea how powerful Jasmine was outside of her having been able to get people to love her.
      I didn't see him running away from her when she punched him off a building and tossed a car at him, did you?

      With Spike, and, again, because he had no other choice.
      You honestly think for one second that Angel wouldn't have went up against Illyria if Spike hadn't been there?

      And his saying that he was going to slay the dragon doesn't mean he actually believed he could.
      Um, so? You claimed Angel would be too afraid to dust Drusilla because he's scared of Spike. Even if Angel didn't believe he could actually slay the dragon you don't deny that he planned to try. So using your logic, Angel's brave enough to try and singlehandedly fight a dragon which he doesn't think he can beat but he's too scared to anger Spike. Yeah, right

      Oh, and Angel seemed quite confident that he could slay the dragon

      Why didn't you mention what happened after that? Angel was about tortured to death by a vampire that Spike hired.
      LOL. You actually want me to mention the fact that Spike couldn't beat Angel on his own and hand to resort to taking on Angel two against one? Ok, then.

      And I notice that you didn't address Angel taking on Faith, or the Beast, or the demon trials, or choosing to go back into the underground fighting ring, or the demon warrior holding Jasmine's real name etc.

      Canon. Spike when being just-corporealized and after having been drank from beat Angel.
      Oh, please. Harmony barley got her fangs into Spike before he shoved her off. And we've seen vampires heal from far greater wounds than two tiny puncture wounds.

      First off, Angel would remember that Spike beat him the last time they fought and maybe that Spike was rusty when that happened.
      Actually, the last time Angel and Spike fought Angel was a PUPPET and he beat Spike's ass. Do you not recall Angel pummeling Spike in the elevator and leaving him with a bloody nose and lying on the floor?

      Now, if I were talking to a more reasoned person I would use this as evidence that there's really no consistency whatsoever when it comes to characters and their strength. But since I'm talking to somebody who uses every little thing against characters he despises and who uses any little detail to try and prove his favourite characters are awesome and amazing, I guess Puppet!Angel really was just stronger than Spike. Puppet!Angel beat Spike's ass. How humiliating!

      Oh, and in Power Play Angel took on Spike, Wesley, Gunn and Lorne all at once and actually gained the upper hand. He also easily ducked Spike's swing in NFA and had him by the throat as Hamilton walked in. So, no, there's nothing definitive whatsoever about Destiny and it doesn't prove whatsoever that because Spike beat Angel once he's automatically going to beat him again.

      First off, that's something Angel said, not something's that's automatically canon. Angel's a known liar. Secondly, aside from "In the Dark" (1.03) -- in which Angel had a bleeding mouth and Spike was perfectly fine --, the only time we saw them fighting is in the "Fool For Love" (5.07) flashback when Spike wasn't even a year old and Spike was simply trying to goad Angel into being more like Spike.
      I love how you try and spin In The Dark in favour of Spike. Spike ran way from Angel. Spike enlisted the help of another vampire rather than face Angel one-on-one again. He obviously wasn't confident that he'd be able to beat Angel on his own and had to resort to getting help from Marcus instead. To use one of your favourite phrases, it's "beyond silly" that you'd try and use that episode of all episodes to prove that Spike is superior to Angel. If he was so superior and if he could have bested Angel in a fight then why take the cowardly approach and hire another vampire to help overpower Angel?

      And spare me rejecting anything Angel says because he's a "known liar." How convenient for you to dismiss Angel on that basis considering Spike has lied on many occasions too and yet you have no problem accepting what he says at face value (he was "rusty" etc). And I'm seriously laughing at you expecting anybody to take your fanwanks as some kind of "canon" (Spike was weaker because Harmony bit him etc) but blatantly dismissing actual dialogue that doesn't suit your bias.

      Spike still loves Dru. And after what Angel did in BtVS S8 it wouldn't take too much for Spike to determine that Angel should be dusted and then dust Angel.
      If Spike tried to kill Angel for dusting a soulless vampire then he wouldn't be much of a hero himself. Regardless, it would never happen because Spike would never be so moronic to try.
      Last edited by vampmogs; 02-01-13, 02:42 PM.
      - "The earth is doomed" -

      Comment


      • #33
        The ONLY reason Drusilla is not dust after all these years is plot armour.

        I think the end of the "Daddy Issues" arc has the best reason for Drusilla being undusted: in the chaos she managed to escape. I can believe that. I prefer that explanation to other episodes where characters just let her escape for no reason or don't bother to make sure she's been finished off properly.

        I do laugh at the idea of Angel being too scared of Spike to ever attempt to kill Drusilla. There are so many things wrong with that idea it's laughable.

        Also, any character right now has the moral authority to kill Drusilla. She evil, crazy and has recently killed. I don't believe anyone exists who doesn't have the "right" to put a stake in Drusilla.

        Comment


        • #34
          Jack Shaftoe

          I find it extremely funny how you get all indignant about Angel killing people and yet so defensive every time the idea that someone should stop Drusilla from killing more people comes up.
          It’s because the talk is about Angel being okay to dust Drusilla. Unless Dru goes to Heaven and she is reunited with her family that Angel murdered, I don’t want her dusted. But I have said that it would be okay for Buffy or Faith to dust Drusilla (if they could best her). I’ve said that after BtVS S8, for Angel to even consider it would be disgusting hypocrisy.

          Or how you insist that Spike or Buffy would have been right to kill Wood and Giles after Lies My Parents Told Me but dusting Drusilla is out of the question.
          Again, by Angel.

          Drusilla being a nun before becoming a vampire isn't any consolation to the thousands of people she has murdered and would keep on murdering unless someone stops her.
          Again, even a souled Angel cannot be trusted and has proven to be more dangerous than Drusilla. Drusilla hadn’t been killing and she had been helping people (those people obviously weren’t being helped by medication or treatments that the medical community gives them). Angel however had tried to destroy the world and all its inhabitants barring Buffy and himself.

          And no matter how many times you say it, canon still holds that Angel or Willow or any other person with a soul is far more likely to be redeemed than Drusilla is, so your argument that killing her would be as (un)justified as killing them is wrong.
          I didn’t say it would be unjustified. I said it’d be disgusting hypocrisy.

          As for justified, Slayers attacked her and she killed them. I maintain that she has the right to defend herself, especially since she’s only a danger again because Angel killed the Lorophage demon.

          Comment


          • #35
            Your idea that Drusilla was legitimately helping people with the Lorophange demon does not line up with the text of the story, nor does it line up with the writer opinions. Drusilla was not legitimately helping people, she was using their trauma to feed her pet and she was doing it so that she could get free blood and groupies. She was using those people and essentially lobotomizing them. Angel was quite correct when he said that Faith had become something *less* when she stopped feeling guilt over killing the vulcanologist. Having your trauma sucked out by a demon is not a natural or healthy way of dealing with it. Not to mention that some of the people Drusilla released back into society after the Lorophange had been at them were still crazy and a threat to society.

            The moral position of the Buffyverse has always suggested that it's okay to kill vampires on principal. Buffy has killed many a vampire who has never hurt anyone. If you think that Drusilla has the right to defend herself against a Slayer by using lethal force, then Angel *certainly* has the right to defend himself against the Lorophange demon. That's what Angel was doing when he killed the demon, he was defending himself.

            I still don't follow your logic that Angel shouldn't be allowed to kill Drusilla because Angel's Twilight stint was worse that anything Drusilla has done lately. By that logic, Angel shouldn't be allowed to kill any vampires. Do you think Angel has being hypocritic when he killed the vamp that was about to snack on Nadira? What about when Angel kills zompires? These vampires haven't done anything as bad as Twilight, what right does Angel have to dust them?

            Do you have a problem with Spike dusting vampires who have done less evil than him? Because Spike has been doing that since his first episode.

            Comment


            • #36
              Vampire in Rug

              * The “text of the story” is “that Drusilla was legitimately helping people with the Lorophange demon”.

              I remember that Christos Gage’s opinions includes that Angel was redeemed before A&F S9 began and that somehow Willow is eviler than Angel is. Both those opinions are directly opposed to canon.

              Drusilla’s followers weren’t “essentially lobotomize[ed]”. Again, such a regard is grossly insulting and disparaging towards anyone who could helped by the Lorophage demon.

              So what if Drusilla may have had some selfish motives for helping her followers. Angel had selfish motives for not wanting Faith ‘cured’. He wanted Faith to feel guilty and continuing to help him.


              * Drusilla’s followers were only perhaps dangerous again because the Lorophage demon was killed, which is Angel’s fault.

              The moral position of the Buffyverse has always suggested that it's okay to kill vampires on principal.
              The moral position of the Buffyverse is the killing of vampires and demons is based on cost-benefit analysis. Buffy’s dusting the vampire whores was considered dark and disturbing.


              * Angel should have been dusted after BtVS 8.40. I reason Drusilla wanted to cure Faith and then have the Loropage demon make Angel content. Angel should then be ‘Angelus’ and Faith would dust Angel.


              * Angel should have dusted himself after BtVS 8.40 if no one else was willing to do it. Drusilla has NEVER done anything as bad as what Angel did in BtVS S8. In addition, Angel was part of the Judge and Acathla things.


              * Post-BtVS 8.40, comparing Spike and Angel regarding ‘goodness’ is beyond laughable.

              Comment

              Working...
              X