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Kate's involvement with Season 3

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  • buffyholic
    replied
    I agree. The way they parted in "Epiphany" was very civil and sweet. Kate had come to terms that while he was what he was, he is a good person and that she was saved for same reason.

    But I´m glad we have Justine because I like her and she seems very realistic.

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  • Dinza
    replied
    Originally posted by MikeB View Post
    Oh, my premise is that Angel and Kate didn’t have the reconciliation that they had in “Epiphany” (A 2.16) and that Kate wasn’t fired. She was fired and that reconciliation happened because Elizabeth Rohm got Law and Order .

    Going by how “Epiphany” was done, Kate was no longer a member of the police force and, unless she joined Angel Investigations, she was unlikely to be used on the show again as she’s have around no use. And having her join AI would mean having another regular cast member.

    So, if she continued on the show she would very likely continue to be an antagonist to Angel and would have been likely to get the entire LAPD after Angel.

    I agree fully with vampmogs post http://www.buffyforums.net/forums/sh...86&postcount=8 other than I’m not sure that Kate would join with Holtz. Holtz killed a bunch of people working for Wolfram and Hart and Kate is not okay with such things.
    Yea when I went back and re-read the wikia entry on Kate/Justine Cooper it seems like Justine was a created as a completely original and unique entity separate from Kate. Justine's anger/lust for vengeance drove her, whereas I think Kate would have been more on the lawful >< good side of justice since her way of thinking wasn't as black and white as Justine's and she wasn't as sadistic as Holtz. If she were to return instead of Justine, I think she would of had more of a "cat woman"/vigilante relationship with Angel than a straight-up "go to hell vampire scum" type.

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  • MikeB
    replied
    Oh, my premise is that Angel and Kate didn’t have the reconciliation that they had in “Epiphany” (A 2.16) and that Kate wasn’t fired. She was fired and that reconciliation happened because Elizabeth Rohm got Law and Order .

    Going by how “Epiphany” was done, Kate was no longer a member of the police force and, unless she joined Angel Investigations, she was unlikely to be used on the show again as she’s have around no use. And having her join AI would mean having another regular cast member.

    So, if she continued on the show she would very likely continue to be an antagonist to Angel and would have been likely to get the entire LAPD after Angel.

    I agree fully with vampmogs post http://www.buffyforums.net/forums/sh...86&postcount=8 other than I’m not sure that Kate would join with Holtz. Holtz killed a bunch of people working for Wolfram and Hart and Kate is not okay with such things.

    Leave a comment:


  • KingofCretins
    replied
    The vicissitudes of fate sometimes are better than the plans of Mutant Enemy, and this is one of those times. I think Mogs is probably right, that they had Angel and Kate reach détente was that Elisabeth Rohm was leaving. And... good, because that scene in "Epiphany" was too great to part with to see her turned into a second banana villain destined to be pooping in a bucket. Although that would make the chart of Kate's character one of the most truly diverse of any they've had, since she started off as such an obvious intended love interest.

    Leave a comment:


  • vampmogs
    replied
    Lets not assume that if Elisabeth Rohm had been available for S3 that Kate and Angel would have made peace like they did in Epiphany. They only wrote her character out like that because Rohm had gotten a job on Law & Order so, if she had decided to stay, it's very unlikely that Angel and Kate would have still ended things on good terms in that episode. They probably would have continued to have a hostile relationship for the remainder of S2 and that would continue into S3 when Kate would join forces with Holtz.

    I really like the idea. Justine was ok but having Kate team up with Holtz would have added a much bigger punch and I definitely prefer her character. I don't think it would be character assasination or OOC for her to join Holtz, as up until Epiphany she was blaming Angel for the death of her father (whether it was justified or not) and she had a lot of difficulty with the vampire thing. Remember that she had done research on Angel's past and knew all about his history, and she had just found out that Angel locked the lawyers in with Darla and Dru, so there's plenty of reasons why she could be persuaded by Holtz.

    The only reason Kate made peace with Angel is because Rohm made an unexpected exit from the show. You can definitely tell that it caught the writers by surprise as the character's exit seemed to come out of nowhere, and a lot of fans weren't even aware that the character had left the program for good. I'm not surprised whatsoever that their original plans for the character had her sticking around for a lot longer rather than her rather abrupt departure midway through S2.

    Leave a comment:


  • Lostsoul666
    replied
    Originally posted by MikeB View Post
    she'd be more likely to get the entire Los Angeles Police Department after Angel.
    Very unlikely. In season 2 Kate was considered to be a weirdo by her fellow cops, not to mention she was fired so she would have no way to get her fellow cops to go after Angel.

    Leave a comment:


  • Dinza
    replied
    ^
    I wonder how that would have played out if Kate became the ruthless, vigilante-cop, hunter? Though for obvious reasons I think Justine's character fit the bill better.

    Leave a comment:


  • MikeB
    replied
    I consider that that could have been made to work. Angel saved Kate's life and such but maybe she found out about other bad things that Angel had done. Angel saving her life doesn't automatically mean that she'd forgive him for every bad thing that he's ever done. And Kate didn't know about what Angel did to Holtz.

    Having said that, it's probably a good thing that Kate wasn't used as she'd be more likely to get the entire Los Angeles Police Department after Angel.

    Leave a comment:


  • Dinza
    replied
    Originally posted by TimeTravellingBunny View Post
    In that case, I'm glad she was unavailable, because that sounds like a really stupid plot. Why would Kate hold a grudge against Angel, who tried to save her father, and who saved her life? And Kate was a far more mature and competent person than Justine, having her manipulated by Holtz wouldn't have made sense.
    Totally agree. Sounds like it would have been character assassination along the lines of Season 4 Cordelia.

    Leave a comment:


  • davebuffster
    replied
    Originally posted by TimeTravellingBunny View Post
    In that case, I'm glad she was unavailable, because that sounds like a really stupid plot. Why would Kate hold a grudge against Angel, who tried to save her father, and who saved her life? And Kate was a far more mature and competent person than Justine, having her manipulated by Holtz wouldn't have made sense.
    I agree, it would have made a mockery of the sort of peace she made with the character the previous Series.

    Off course, it's possible that the story that wrote Kate out was written because Elisabeth Rohm had already declared she was unavailable for Series 3 and therefore maybe planning for it was underway at this point. Hence maybe the plan for Kate to team up with Holtz was discussed before she announced she was leaving.

    Not saying this is a fact but just a suggestion which would make sense of it all.

    Leave a comment:


  • TimeTravellingBunny
    replied
    Originally posted by Blix View Post
    Reading on the Buffy wiki it states that the vampire hunter and Daniel Holtz's henchman Justine was created because the actress portraying Kate Lockley was unavailable for Season 3 (went to do some crime show iirc). This sounds like IF Kate had been in Season 3 that she would have held some kind of grudge against Angel and would have been working with Holtz...I thought by her last appearance (after he saved her from overdosing) that they were more or less on good terms...or maybe she'd blame Angel for losing her job AND her father's death? What do you think?

    Link:http://buffy.wikia.com/wiki/Justine_Cooper
    In that case, I'm glad she was unavailable, because that sounds like a really stupid plot. Why would Kate hold a grudge against Angel, who tried to save her father, and who saved her life? And Kate was a far more mature and competent person than Justine, having her manipulated by Holtz wouldn't have made sense.

    Leave a comment:


  • Dinza
    started a topic Kate's involvement with Season 3

    Kate's involvement with Season 3

    Reading on the Buffy wiki it states that the vampire hunter and Daniel Holtz's henchman Justine was created because the actress portraying Kate Lockley was unavailable for Season 3 (went to do some crime show iirc). This sounds like IF Kate had been in Season 3 that she would have held some kind of grudge against Angel and would have been working with Holtz...I thought by her last appearance (after he saved her from overdosing) that they were more or less on good terms...or maybe she'd blame Angel for losing her job AND her father's death? What do you think?

    Link:http://buffy.wikia.com/wiki/Justine_Cooper
    The character was created because Elisabeth Röhm, who had portrayed Kate Lockley in Season 1 and 2, was unavailable.
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