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Picking apart the Powers That Be

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  • #16
    Originally posted by Nina View Post

    I don't think Buffy being alive or dead is tipping the scale to be honest. I suspect that it's all about the apocalypse by W&H. That such an event would destroy the balance in the universe because the Old Ones would rule over humanity and humanoid demons again. Angel somehow ended up in this mess thanks to a prophecy/vision, otherwise he would be as insignificant as any other human/vampire.
    Which is another Mystery box. On BtVS an apocalypse is a tounge in cheek joke, they make fun of how many they seem to have on the show, yet suddenly the are supposed to care about this one and take it seriously

    In S5 Lindsey its thee apocalypse, well what does that even mean ? the writers never bother to tell us.
    Why do W&H, especially the human workers want one, who knows ? What is the Senior Partners motivation behind this again who knows ?

    Its just all one giant mystery box that's never answered

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    • #17
      Originally posted by BtVS fan View Post

      Which is another Mystery box. On BtVS an apocalypse is a tounge in cheek joke, they make fun of how many they seem to have on the show, yet suddenly the are supposed to care about this one and take it seriously

      In S5 Lindsey its thee apocalypse, well what does that even mean ? the writers never bother to tell us.
      Why do W&H, especially the human workers want one, who knows ? What is the Senior Partners motivation behind this again who knows ?

      Its just all one giant mystery box that's never answered
      I don't think this is a project the human and minor demon employees of W&H know about. And my guess is that the SP (who are Old Ones) simply want to return home and restore their old world. But this time they want to rule/be in charge.


      Agreed that it's not very well explored, probably because it's too big. You have to work out the mythology, what the SP really are (how powerful, where are they now, how do they look like etc.) and if you show a lot it will probably cost too much money. That, and you will never live up to the hype. There will be plotholes, it won't be much scarier than the other apocalypses or demons, it might look cheap etc. By keeping it vague (like with the PtB), viewers can imagine it and it will probably be more effective.

      Personally I think they should have given us a bit more, simply to make the actions by the team in NFA feel more necessary. I know they lacked time due to the very late cancelation, still they could've done something. TGIQ is mostly filler/utter nonsense, they could've used that time to show us Angel finding some extra information. But otherwise I'm glad they kept it vague.

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      • #18
        I agree it's too big. If they had given more about the Senior Partners or the Powers it would have just taken a lot of time out of developing the characters we're actually following. Plus, them being pretty unseen vast powers/influences behind the scenes and distanced from the people on the ground they are affecting is more akin to the structures people often feel a part of in the real world. Even getting Angel to step closer in AtS 5 and yet the idea of even getting to have any meaningful impact being something they know will only have a temporary effect. More will fill the gap they create and that again works with that sense of greater powers that work at a distance. The effect those powers have on the people we're following, generally and sometimes with more direct impact, works with that and the disregard matches their lack of physical presence almost.

        Personally the best way I can connect to NFA is in how bleak and pointless it was. They knew it was only a 'moment' that they'd achieve and that fitted Angel's outlook and despondency in the season I think. It would have taken a lot to switch it to being needed, but I'd agree there was space to present it differently and TGIQ a good target for gaining extra space/time.

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        • BtVS fan
          BtVS fan commented
          Editing a comment
          Metaphor wise NFA was basically just the writers F U to the Network for cancelling them.
          Though it was really well done and I prefer it to Chosen as a Finale, I do think its for the best if Angel died in that Alley Imo

      • #19
        Originally posted by Nina View Post

        I don't think this is a project the human and minor demon employees of W&H know about. And my guess is that the SP (who are Old Ones) simply want to return home and restore their old world. But this time they want to rule/be in charge.


        Agreed that it's not very well explored, probably because it's too big. You have to work out the mythology, what the SP really are (how powerful, where are they now, how do they look like etc.) and if you show a lot it will probably cost too much money. That, and you will never live up to the hype. There will be plotholes, it won't be much scarier than the other apocalypses or demons, it might look cheap etc. By keeping it vague (like with the PtB), viewers can imagine it and it will probably be more effective.

        Personally I think they should have given us a bit more, simply to make the actions by the team in NFA feel more necessary. I know they lacked time due to the very late cancelation, still they could've done something. TGIQ is mostly filler/utter nonsense, they could've used that time to show us Angel finding some extra information. But otherwise I'm glad they kept it vague.

        When it comes to the Black Thorn, it would've been better for the show if they'd just been humans rather than Demons or put simply guys in makeup. They had been pretty much shown as a joke previously. Look at the Arch Duke in Life of a Party or the Devil guy who was a gag line in Your Welcome or the Fel "ill have a Cola". So Angels line "I'm talking about killing everyone of the Black Thorn" line feels flat because its the same old same old.

        TGIQ I like as an episode and laugh at though admittedly it felt like Joss taking shots at Buffy because SMG didn't come back. The comic book retcon doesn't help either and makes it worse in fact.

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        • #20
          Originally posted by BtVS fan View Post


          When it comes to the Black Thorn, it would've been better for the show if they'd just been humans rather than Demons or put simply guys in makeup. They had been pretty much shown as a joke previously. Look at the Arch Duke in Life of a Party or the Devil guy who was a gag line in Your Welcome or the Fel "ill have a Cola". So Angels line "I'm talking about killing everyone of the Black Thorn" line feels flat because its the same old same old.
          I don't really agree about the CotBT being human. Not only would it be odd to add Angelus to a club with only humans, but humans are not really a match for Angel in battle. He wouldn't even need his team, he could just kill them all at the meeting.

          That said, I do agree that watching one of them play squash and the whole stuff with the Arch Duke do cheapen the Circle. I understand that the writers made the call to bring back some familiar faces from previous episodes in order to make it all look more like a coherent story, but in this case I think I would've selected Cyvus Vail and Marcus Hamilton and made up some new members to complete the Circle.

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