Announcement

Collapse
No announcement yet.

Did Angel love Darla?

Collapse
X
 
  • Filter
  • Time
  • Show
Clear All
new posts

  • #16
    Originally posted by vampmogs View Post
    I think Angel cared deeply for Darla and that they had a really, really important relationship but I don't think it was love. Even at the height of what he felt for her, which IMO was "The Trial", the promise he made to her was that he'd be there for her until her inevitable end (from sickness). I don't think he'd ever had much such promises of commitment had she not been terminally ill.
    The reason why I don't see this as love is because Darla is that Darla at the end of the episode is a completely different person from who she is at the start of the episode, and then she dies and looses her soul again. How can you love someone you do not know? Did he love the person Darla could have become?

    There are two Angel-lines that stand out to me concerning Darla. One is when he says: "She never had a chance." The other is in Epiphany where he says something like: "You made me. I thought I could save myself by saving you."

    Darla is incredibly important to Angel, but they are not in love. They are strangers who know each other better than anybody. Their whole relationship is filled with paradox. They are each other's damnation/salvation.

    Originally posted by vampmogs View Post
    I don't think he loved her with or without a soul and that's part of what I find interesting about their relationship. They're like a divorced couple who where with each other for ages, who know each other better than anyone, and who have a really complex relationship, but they're not in love.
    Yes, I like that.

    https://youtu.be/AZwnSSY2Ofw
    Last edited by Willow from Buffy; 14-06-19, 12:58 PM.

    Comment


    • #17
      Originally posted by flow View Post
      HardlyThere:

      Hmmm. This makes me wonder. I don't think I would sacrifice myself for my hubby, whom I love deeply and hopefully not too selfishly. I care about his well being. I do. But would I really sacrifice myself for him? I would do it in a heartbeat and without thinking twice for each of my sons. But that`s a whole different vibe. I don't even know if it has to do with love or if it's more about instincts - hardwired into me because evolution always keeps the cirlce of life going on and on and on.

      Would any of you sacrifice yourself for anyone you love who is not your child?

      flow
      I don't agree with it all that much as it seems to be a bit of a glorification. Just going by Joss's apparent definition of it. Throughout the show love is nearly always demonstrated by some kind of sacrifice, whether it be Angel or Oz leaving or Darla staking herself so Connor can be born.

      Comment


      • #18
        Originally posted by flow View Post
        HardlyThere:

        Hmmm. This makes me wonder. I don't think I would sacrifice myself for my hubby, whom I love deeply and hopefully not too selfishly. I care about his well being. I do. But would I really sacrifice myself for him? I would do it in a heartbeat and without thinking twice for each of my sons. But that`s a whole different vibe. I don't even know if it has to do with love or if it's more about instincts - hardwired into me because evolution always keeps the cirlce of life going on and on and on.

        Would any of you sacrifice yourself for anyone you love who is not your child?

        flow
        I would do it for any child in danger. I think that it's instinct as well.
        Can we agree that the writers made everyone do and say everything with a thought to getting good ratings and being renewed. This includes everything we love as well as everything we hate.

        Comment


        • #19
          Originally posted by flow View Post
          HardlyThere:

          Hmmm. This makes me wonder. I don't think I would sacrifice myself for my hubby, whom I love deeply and hopefully not too selfishly. I care about his well being. I do. But would I really sacrifice myself for him? I would do it in a heartbeat and without thinking twice for each of my sons. But that`s a whole different vibe. I don't even know if it has to do with love or if it's more about instincts - hardwired into me because evolution always keeps the cirlce of life going on and on and on.

          Would any of you sacrifice yourself for anyone you love who is not your child?

          flow
          I wouldn't hesitate if it were my dog, Piglet. I'm not sure it'd even feel like a choice, instead of the obvious thing to do. I'd die for my sister if she told me the reason was worthwhile, although I doubt she'd want me to do it just to save her.

          That ties into the big problem with sacrifice in the Buffyverse. It's one thing if destiny or a spirit guide or whatever can vouch that you were "meant" to take the fall. Maybe then the person you replaced can sleep soundly in the knowledge that what happened was right. But. In real life, I wouldn't necessarily want someone to take my place in a fight, car crash, or other deadly event. (Note: I'm assuming here that we're talking about one person taking one other person's place; if one person, but not the other, can save a multiple people, or something intangible, then the moral math becomes a lot harder.) Depending on the circumstances, I might even feel betrayed that they'd put me in the position of causing their death. A domino effect of people trying to die (or thinking that they should have tried to die) sounds a lot less healthy than letting one person die and get it over with. Or than one person feeling that they're "called" to save others. "Sacrifice" originally meant something offered to a god, something that became holy by its offering. To die for someone who would rather you not sounds similar to glorifying oneself at the expense of another's free will.

          Comment


          • #20
            I would die for someone I loved without hesitation. I would hope I'd do the same for any child. But that said I've never even put myself on a living donor list so I guess I'm a hypocrite but with good intentions.


            “I like who I am when I’m with him. I like who we are together.”

            Comment


            • #21
              I am going to go with no. NOT saying that Angelus could not love... but that without a soul he was more sociopath than anything... he was obsessed more than loving. Did he care about Darla? I believe he did. He was attracted to her, and connected to her deeply. Love is sacrificial however and I don't believe that Angel was sacrificial in his dealings with anyone. To be honest, I think before he gets his soul back, the deepest connection he has is to Drusilla -- he made her and she reminds him both of what he came from (and I think of his sister) and also what he destroyed... I think it is why he cannot kill her just as he cannot kill Darla... and from what we know, most vampires seem to have difficulty killing their sires.

              I believe Angel's bitterness and cruelty stemmed from who Liam was before his death... he was not on good terms with father... his life wasn't full of warm and loving relationships.

              I think vampires are a reflection of the person they are in life... and the pains and hurts they have in life...

              Liam was bitter and alone and as a vampire he was angry and obsessive and cruel.

              William didn't feel like a man. In life he was also full of love and affection and romantic leanings... as a vampire he got off on the power of being strong and powerful and he was still full of love - he directed it first at Dru and then at Buffy and her family.

              Anne Pratt: was a good and pious woman but made powerless by her TB. When she was turned all the rage and powerlessness came out as cruelty to the one person who had taken care of her -- William. (I believe had he not dusted her, she might well have gotten over her rage, but it's also possible she would have been stuck in the pain of being a powerless middle aged woman tied to her son who had turned her without her permission... and whose expectations she felt trapped by (and probably had in life to some degree))

              I think the demon twists the person inside and what comes out is a fun house mirror of the original.

              People like Harmony don't really change much b/c they're not that deep and they keep most of the same concerns.

              IMO, Vampires are products of who they are in life AND the sires that turn them -- if those sires stick around. Darla encouraged Angelus to be ruthless and to view relationships in transactional terms... something that she as a prostitute was already inclined to do.

              EDIT:

              While Angelus didn't really love Darla, I do believe that Angel did.
              Last edited by DeepBlueJoy; 17-06-19, 07:25 PM.

              Comment

              Working...
              X