Announcement

Collapse
No announcement yet.

2020 U.S. Presidential Election Thread

Collapse
X
 
  • Filter
  • Time
  • Show
Clear All
new posts

  • #76
    All said regarding writers, producers, actors, directors, viewers, readers, etc. are what I remember, my opinions, etc.



    The votes haven't been all counted yet, but http://<a href="https://www.nytimes....ucus.html </a>


    It seems US Senator Bernard Sanders has won the Nevada caucuses by a commanding margin (which may end up being an over 25% margin). He around tied with Vice President Joseph Biden for those 45 years old and up and won in every other category including with MODERATES.

    Medicare For All, free public college, the Green New Deal, etc.--these are moderate positions given the average United States voting citizen wants them.

    US President Donald Trump's recent budget proposal includes things like more border wall funding and cuts to Medicaid, Medicare, and Social Security. All those things are deeply unpopular with the average US citizen.

    Regarding political reporting regarding the United States, the New York Times has become somewhat embarrassing. It 'both sides' too much with the Trump Administration stuff. It favors and privileges 'Establishment Democrats' over the actual popular members of the Democratic Party.

    And it was simply always asinine to try to accede to the preferences of 'Never Trumpers'. "Pick Democratic candidates who are pre-Trump Republicans!"

    Comment


    • #77
      All said regarding writers, producers, actors, directors, viewers, readers, etc. are what I remember, my opinions, etc.



      http://<a href="https://www.nytimes....imary.html</a>



      * Old people and the black vote in the Democratic Primaries is perhaps the main reason Donald Trump became President of the United States. It's presently not looking good for US Senator Bernard Sanders.

      US Senator Elizabeth Warren's remaining in the race after 'Mayor Pete' and US Senator Amy Klobuchar left considerably hurt US Senator Sanders.

      The only upside is Medicare For All is popular. The Green New Deal is popular. And perhaps Vice President Joseph Biden's saying he'll only be in for one term significantly to considerably helped him. He may need to pick a relatively young 'Progressive' as his VP pick.

      The media narrative and the recent endorsements put VP Biden 'over the top'. Not winning Super Tuesday is disastrous for US Senator Sanders. Losing in Texas is bad. Relatively barely winning in California is bad.

      I honestly consider VP Biden should get his lawyers together and see if it'd be legal to pick US Representative Alexandria Ocasio-Cortez as his VP pick. The Latino vote--especially the younger vote--went to US Senator Sanders.

      VP Biden is not going to have enthusiasm for him without some excitement for his Presidency.

      Comment


      • #78
        I can save his campaign some money; the constitutional eligibility for VP and for POTUS is the same. Besides, shrewd observers will note that Warren staying in the race at this point is not beneficial to anyone but Biden and is probably a calculation to get her consideration as a VP nominee. More cynical shrewd observers will note that, yet again, a state with significant reporting issues and a prominent role in setting the course of the race is one that could have given Sanders a lot of juice and that that... is probably not an accident in any way shape or form. Looks like I was right the first time - "who is going to be Joe Biden's running mate" adequately sums up the Democrat primary.
        sigpic
        Banner by LRae12

        Comment


        • #79
          All said regarding writers, producers, actors, directors, viewers, readers, etc. are what I remember, my opinions, etc.



          * Considering certain things US Senator Mitch McConnell has done and considering certain things US President Donald Trump has done: what US Constitution?

          And 'too young' have been seated before: http://<a href="https://history.hous...Claiborne/</a>


          * It was obvious that: "US Senator Elizabeth Warren's remaining in the race after 'Mayor Pete' and US Senator Amy Klobuchar left considerably hurt US Senator Sanders." The only, "Okay, but..." is that Mayor Michael Bloomberg also stayed in the race. If Bloomberg leaves and Warren stays...

          US Senator Warren seems to think she can somehow be a 'consensus' nominee if VP Biden and US Senator Sanders don't get a majority of the delegates.




          KingofCretins


          * I don't recall yours earlier suggesting that there'd be this level of possible corruption and rigging. It's easily arguably even worse than in 2016 A.D. And no one earlier could have predicted that US Senator Warren would betray US Senator Sanders and even more so to this extent.

          Progressives feel betrayed by Warren. VP Biden probably is not going to want to, but he's going to need to pick someone relatively progressive who can get Latinos to vote in November. Secretary Julian Castro could work. Maybe.

          The race isn't over yet. We'll see how the next Debate goes. And there are more contests.

          The voters agree with US Senator Bernard Sanders's policies and ideas. But the media and 'The Establishment' decided on Biden and old people and Black voters like Biden so...

          The main concern if what if US President Donald Trump wins re-election? Fascism? Dictatorship? It's very concerning.

          Most people think they are richer and more powerful than they actually are. Medicare For All is needed for anyone not having an extra few million dollars around (not tied up in hard assets) in case one gets cancer or whatever. College for all. Unless your kid can get into an Upper Ivy or Stanford, you're going to need eventually maybe $0.5MM per child just for undergrad.

          Anyway. I'll be fine as long as Global Warming doesn't get too bad.




          Comment


          • #80
            Oh, I've always though the DNC were going to thumb the scales against Bernie, just like they did in 2016. I didn't expect it to happen so immediately and effectively as it happened here, or that Biden would still have the cache left to be the guy they would be able to protect.

            I don't really "mind" parties cheating this way though because I don't actually... believe... in the primary/caucus process. I mostly think it's political kabuki theatre. It's a show parties put on to make sure that the voters they need don't shop outside their brand.

            Let's take you as an example of what I mean - your political motivations run deeper than just not wanting Trump to have a second term; you affirmatively do want Sanders to be President. The DNC doesn't want either Trump reelected OR Sanders to be President. But if they just did what they want to, which is essentially hold a press conference and announce that Biden in 2020 or Clinton in 2016 were the nominee, how could they realistically expect your vote, when you could just turn around and say "run Bernie run"? They couldn't. They wouldn't.

            So instead, let's have a series of primaries, and let people "have their say" and burn off all that extra "I want my choice" energy off. Either they'll choose correctly (so to speak) and the party will have who they would have just announced, or they'll (try) to choose incorrectly and the party will just... kinda screw around with until they get their way anyway.

            The GOP failed at this in 2016 because they failed to accept reality early enough, and Trump was able to gain a delegate majority before the convention, leaving them only with the choice to accept him as the nominee and work with it, or to openly flout their own paper process and essentially forfeit the election cycle. They had only one candidate that they could have coalesced support around early and maybe forced a brokered convention or just beaten Trump, but it was Ted Cruz whom the party also didn't want to give the nomination and was just there for voters to "burn off steam". They wanted Rubio or Kasich, problem was Rubio or Kasich... well, it would have been the equivalent this year of Biden, Bloomberg, and Warren dropping out to throw their weight behind Klobuchar. Trying to push start a pick-up truck while standing in the bed.

            The Democrats did a much better job and basically everything we've seen in past four days has been tactically brilliant political shadiness... Biden wins a primary that everybody already knew he would, but it gets played up like it was Rocky Balboa upsetting Apollo Creed; Pete and Amy get out of the race and endorse him, Warren stays in despite getting wrecked in her home state to keep her votes away from Sanders, and Sanders wins California but not so compellingly that it takes away from the fact that Biden ran roughshed over Super Tuesday, and the nomination feels like a foregone conclusion at this point.

            On voting demographics... harp on the "old people" all you want, but looks like Bernie's main argument of electability, young voters, yet again have failed to live up to the hype as NBC shows only 13% turnout for voters 18-29, actually a decrease from 2016.

            The main concern if what if US President Donald Trump wins re-election? Fascism? Dictatorship? It's very concerning.
            Four years of President-ing and then leaves office would be the obvious outcome here.
            sigpic
            Banner by LRae12

            Comment


            • #81
              All said regarding writers, producers, actors, directors, viewers, readers, etc. are what I remember, my opinions, etc.




              EDIT: Or Alexandria Ocasio-Cortez can be made the EPA head.

              And the race isn't over. It seems US Senator Bernard Sanders is finally taking VP Biden seriously and is 'going negative'. END OF EDIT.




              KingofCretins



              * I don't want a violent revolution happening in the United States. I was concerned in 2007-8 A.D. Let's just say certain things were made bulletproof. People are not okay with the income and wealth inequality now.


              The Democratic Establishment was for Hillary Clinton in 2008 A.D. US Senator Barack Obama had to forcefully shame the Superdelegates into backing him instead of Clinton.



              * I didn't say voter turnout hasn't been disappointing for the Sanders campaign. I said that like in 2016 A.D., old people and the black primary voters are giving the nomination to a weak candidate.

              I said turnout is going to be an issue if Biden is the nominee and he doesn't garner excitement among the non-older black vote and non-older White vote.

              The Affordable Care Act alone made Medicare For All popular. I've actually always considered 'a public option' would make Medicare For All almost guaranteed within a few years. But some form of the Green New Deal needs to happen. College needs to be more affordable at least for those studying stuff that 'makes money' and is good for the economy. I've never been anti-billionaire. And Biden will raise taxes on rich people.

              I also never agreed with the sentiment that Biden is 'another Hillary". Hillary was/is very disliked. Biden's a likable guy. Biden and Bernie have always polled best against Trump. Biden simply won't bring the United States 'to the left' as much as Sanders would.

              So, I don't know. Biden would be better than Trump and better than Bloomberg. Biden has flaws. But I hope he makes a good VP pick--one who will appeal to Latinos and Hispanics. And he can put Amy Klobuchar as US Attorney General. Maybe put Elizabeth Warren as US Treasury Secretary. And Sanders can 'round up' votes in the US Senate.

              And then 2024 A.D. happens.



              * There's no guarantee that US President Trump will willingly leave Office even if he loses the 2020 Election. He's already trying to act like a dictator and/or King.


              * The Progressive movement had a bad night on Super Tuesday. I'm still waiting for the Jessica Cisneros race.


              * I'll also say that there's nothing wrong with PACs and SuperPACs. Most voters are ill-informed and advertising and campaign spending helps. Donald Trump got billions in free media that Hillary Clinton didn't. The US House of Representatives was flipped in 2010 A.D. because US President Barack Obama openly was anti-SuperPAC. Oops.

              I hope Mayor Bloomberg does give the Democratic nominee $1B to defeat US President Donald Trump. I hope a bunch of the Democratic rich and wealthy spend to defeat Republicans.
              Last edited by MikeB; 04-03-20, 03:06 PM.

              Comment


              • #82
                Originally posted by MikeB View Post
                All said regarding writers, producers, actors, directors, viewers, readers, etc. are what I remember, my opinions, etc.

                * I actually don't want a violent revolution happening in the United States. I was concerned in 2007-8 A.D.
                I'm really unclear on what context in which you envision this coming up. There will never be an equivalent to the October Revolution or the Cuban Revolution in this country if that's what you are speculating - it would get absolutely smoked and not even by the government.

                * I didn't say voter turnout hasn't been disappointing for the Sanders campaign. I said that like in 2016 A.D., old people and the black primary voters are giving the nomination to a weak candidate.
                I guess my point is, are they the "weak" candidates if they are the one that appeals to the most reliable and effective voter strongholds?

                And then 2024 A.D. happens.
                Bro, she won't even make it past Super Tuesday. I honestly don't even think she runs unless she's already burnt her bridges in the DNC, because her next path forward should, if anything, be trying to oust Gillebrand (she'll get crushed by Schumer) or to replace Cuomo as Governor.

                * There's no guarantee that US President Trump will willingly leave Office even if he loses the 2020 Election.
                There is absolutely no credible basis for this concern. I'm more paranoid about this sort of thing than most people, and have kinda held my breath during the transition window of every outgoing administration, D and R, since I've been grown enough to care. I'm certainly nor more worried about it with Trump, and probably am less. I'm sure he's looking forward to whatever over the top spectacle he can make out of his library.

                * The Progressive movement had a bad night on Super Tuesday. I'm still waiting for the Jessica Cisneros race
                .

                This has been called for Cuellar everywhere I've looked. The clout isn't really there, it's a trick of the light.

                * I'll also say that there's nothing wrong with PACs and SuperPACs. Most voters are ill-informed and advertising and campaign spending helps. Donald Trump got billions in free media that Hillary Clinton didn't. The US House of Representatives was flipped in 2010 A.D. because US President Barack Obama openly was anti-SuperPAC. Oops.

                I hope Mayor Bloomberg does give the Democratic nominee $1B to defeat US President Donald Trump. I hope a bunch of the Democratic rich and wealthy spend to defeat Republicans.
                I'm pretty much open season on political spending as long as platforms aren't trying to cherry pick whose money they'll take. "Let them fight" as the meme goes.
                sigpic
                Banner by LRae12

                Comment


                • #83
                  Well, even in tumultuous times, things go along - Bernie Sanders has suspended his campaign and, just as it appeared from the outset, Joe Biden is the presumptive Democrat nominee.
                  sigpic
                  Banner by LRae12

                  Comment


                  • #84
                    Well, I have no idea if Biden will stand a chance against Trump but I am sure Sanders wouldn't have. So, maybe it's for the best.

                    flow
                    ................................ Banner by buffylover

                    Comment


                    • #85
                      Originally posted by flow View Post
                      Well, I have no idea if Biden will stand a chance against Trump but I am sure Sanders wouldn't have. So, maybe it's for the best.

                      flow
                      The exact opposite is true:

                      Biden will be crushed by Trump in the debates: Trump
                      be may be incoherent and stupid, but there is a logic
                      of attack in what he says, while Biden's debate performance
                      thus far has shown his tendency to wander into
                      senselessness of a very different kind...

                      Sanders would have been able to take Trump to pieces,
                      which would have provoked Trump to refuse to debate
                      him, a thing his base would have supported...

                      Biden, meanwhile, will fail to appeal to the left, fail to
                      draw many Sanders supporters to the polls, just as
                      Clinton failed, especially as he is unlikely to choose a
                      VP candidate who leans in that direction—

                      I despise Biden, but I will hold my nose and vote for
                      him, just as I did for Clinton, knowing the alternative...

                      I fear, however, that many others, even knowing the
                      cost, will not, for Biden is far too tone deaf to seek
                      out their votes, to speak to their concerns, their
                      desire for real change:

                      He is, in the end, in the pocket of Wall Street and
                      Big Pharma, serves the ends of neo-liberalism
                      and global capital—

                      That means he is better than Trump, who is a deeply
                      evil narcissist, but that does not mean that he is
                      a force for the good—


                      Comment


                      • #86
                        Sanders would have been able to take Trump to pieces,
                        which would have provoked Trump to refuse to debate
                        him, a thing his base would have supported...
                        I think it is one option that Trump would have refused to debate with Sanders for whatever reason. That would have left Sanders without the opportunity to do what he is best at and it wouldn't have harmed Trump in any way. The other option is that Trump would have debated with Sanders and would have just repeated over and over "Your nasty...I am great...I am doing a great job....you are a liar....everyone else except me is a liar...I am great...god loves...maybe I am god...I am pretty sure I am god...." and so on. You cannot debate with a narcissist. You cannot take a narcissist to pieces. And as much as it saddens me to say this acting like the narcissist he is in a debate with Sanders wouldn't have harmed Trump either because for a reason I cannot understand he could even drop his pants in the middle of one of his press briefings at the White House and masturbate in front of the cameras and it wouldn't suffice to discredit him in the eyes of his followers AND in the eyes of at least half of the American voters. The only question we will be facing in the 2020 election is, where the rift that divides your country runs through exactly? Is it 49% to 51%? Or is it 51% to 49%?

                        Few expected Trump to actually win in the 2016 election. This is one thing that has changed. He is going to win unless enough Sanders supporters are willing to vote for Biden.

                        Biden is definitely no force for the good. He is nothing more than the lesser of two evils. But there is a whole world of evil between Biden's evilness and Trump's evilness.

                        flow
                        ................................ Banner by buffylover

                        Comment


                        • #87
                          A lot of Americans don't vote. We can only hope the offensiveness of the last four years will spur some to make the effort to change the world. I expect Trump will win, mainly because he fights dirty and is willing to break the law to win.


                          “I like who I am when I’m with him. I like who we are together.”

                          Comment


                          • #88
                            It is very easy to castigate Americans for not voting—

                            But the reasons for non-voting are complex, have little to
                            do with apathy and everything to do with an overwhelming
                            sense that voting makes no difference, given the corruption
                            of the two major parties.

                            As Glenn Greenwald writes in The Intercept:

                            Those who choose not to vote because of dissatisfaction with the choices offered are disproportionately poorer and nonwhite, while rich white people vote in far larger percentages. And the data also makes clear that the primary motive for nonvoting among those demographic groups is not voter suppression but a belief that election outcomes do not matter because both parties are corrupt or interested only in the lives of the wealthy.

                            [....]

                            Nonvoters, despite their large numbers, are rarely discussed in mainstream U.S. precincts. In part that is because national media figures in cable news and Washington are overwhelmingly affluent and have little connection to or interest in them.

                            But in large part, that omission is explained by the fact that interrogating why so many millions of Americans choose not to vote would force the political and media class to grapple with the reason for this choice: Namely, the widespread perception that the political process and the two major parties are fundamentally corrupted and indifferent to all but a small sliver of privileged people. Confronting that problem and being forced to address it is far more difficult than creating a pleasant fiction that falsely maintains that people who abstain from voting do so because of selfish, amoral racial and class privilege.
                            You can read the article itself, which includes a summary
                            of a NYT article about poor Wisconsin residents who did
                            not vote in 2016 and did not regret it, even though it brought
                            Trump to office, as well as Greenwald's ever incisive analysis,
                            here:

                            https://theintercept.com/2020/04/09/...e-two-parties/


                            And none of this bodes well for a Biden candidacy—


                            Comment


                            • #89
                              I understand feeling that voting does not create change, and I support proportional representation in Canada. But as Margaret Mead said:
                              Never doubt that a small group of thoughtful, committed citizens can change the world; indeed, it's the only thing that ever has.

                              In other news can it possibly be true that Trump thinks he can mine the moon? 2020 has got to go down as the strangest year ever......


                              “I like who I am when I’m with him. I like who we are together.”

                              Comment


                              • #90
                                In other news can it possibly be true that Trump thinks he can mine the moon? 2020 has got to go down as the strangest year ever......
                                I'm sure the man who lives there might have something to say about that!

                                Comment


                                • Stoney
                                  Stoney commented
                                  Editing a comment
                                  I love it when a day starts with a laugh, thank you.
                              Working...
                              X