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  • flow and bespangeled

    i share your feelings, the shudder of your fears:

    my sister and i had a conversation about trump
    refusing to give up the presidency, his supporters
    resorting to violence, if he loses just this weekend—

    i even fear that he will try to use the pandemic
    to hold off on the election itself...

    we can put him on the same level as Brazil's
    bolsonaro, whose supporters are actively
    calling for a military coup to support his
    attempts to completely overtake the government
    and return it to the dark days of authoritarianism,
    disappearances, and torture—

    one thing this has showed us quite clearly: hard
    core republicans,* including evangelicals, are not
    the party of life, as they contend:

    they are the party of death—

    death for all but the select few they deem to
    be part of their tribe...

    and that tribe is ever shrinking: the virus has
    now entered rural america, where the healthcare
    system has been devastated by decades of
    republican policy on both state and national
    levels—it barely exists, and as cases rise,
    especially with the unwise re-openings, the
    deaths will spread with terrible speed...

    rural white america is full of trump supporters,
    supporters for whom he has never cared, save
    when it comes to using them to spread his
    ideology of hatred and division—he has done
    nothing for them since elected, and he will do
    nothing for them as they die...

    but i cannot say that they deserve this, cannot
    but grieve for them as well—


    *there are exceptions: look at the actions of the
    governors of ohio and maryland over the past
    few months, for example.... those in congress,
    however, are a lost cause...


    Last edited by StateOfSiege97; 28-05-20, 04:50 AM.

    Comment


    • they are the party of death—

      death for all but the select few they deem to
      be part of their tribe...
      Jesus Christ

      The Republican Governors who appear to have done the best work have been DeSantis, Kemp, and Abbott. Florida's worst foul-up was a UI website and system unprepared to meet the artificially inflated demand placed upon it. I'll add Jim Justice to that list of Republican Governors whose states have outperformed pretty much the whole field. The Democrat governors who I think have done the best jobs have been Polis (who has basically reopened Colorado in the exact way that Kemp did Georgia, to no criticism while the latter was deemed Satan Incarnate) and Newsom (although he doesn't seem capable of letting his foot up).
      sigpic
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      • From the outside looking in it appears the strategy is the "Sweden " model but without the education to social distance and wear masks. Like it or not the US is headed for herd immunity no matter what the death toll is in order to save the economy. The problem? Scientist now think covid19 is here like the common cold or Influenza and any future vaccine will be needed every year for protection. All that death for nothing.


        “I like who I am when I’m with him. I like who we are together.”

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        • Originally posted by GoSpuffy View Post
          From the outside looking in it appears the strategy is the "Sweden " model but without the education to social distance and wear masks. Like it or not the US is headed for herd immunity no matter what the death toll is in order to save the economy. The problem? Scientist now think covid19 is here like the common cold or Influenza and any future vaccine will be needed every year for protection. All that death for nothing.
          Herd immunity starts at 60%, and is consider herd immunity at 90%. This means over half the country has to get this flu.
          Right now we have just over 1 million cases, and just overt 100,000 deaths - neither of which figure is reliable.
          With a population of 327 million people, 196 million people is about 60% This means that in order to reach herd immunity we could easily lose 20 million people. Sadly Trump's ignoramus followers don't know math.

          How about a best case scenario - 10 million Americans die to get to 90% immunity. This is a price they are more than will pay. Just as they once saw the figure 100,000 as hysteria, they will keep raising the bar. Any fear of the virus is considered hysteria, and people are actually being attacked for wearing masks. Trump's followers don't understand that test - quarantine - trace -is the only thing that will give consumers the reassurance they need to get out and consume...what little they can without a job. They don't understand that the majority of people have decided they trust the doctors and science, and not the president. They don't even understand that you wear a mask to protect people you love, and others around you.

          They follow Trump and remain within the limits provided by MAGA, which is a very PC group. Wrong thought is demonized. They are willfully ignorant because disputing anything Trump says requires an open mind, and once they decided to rationalize and excuse Trump they had to stop seeing the reality. Trump is the snowflake in chief who whines, complains, and has incessant tantrums. They are the helicopter mothers who scream out those excuses and rationalizations with a dose of meanness.

          For the record, I have friends who voted for Trump and will again. I know that not every Trump supporter is as I describe. But I just left a conservative fb group dedicated to Bridging The Gap and this was 80% of what Republicans posted. Stop picking on Trump - the media is all liberal and biased - we alone have the facts.

          Oh, and as for having the facts...QANON is their big conspiracy. It is how all the pieces fit together in their minds. Trump supporters believe that Trump is working to break up a liberal elite underground group of satanic cannibal pedophiles. Q people have an inner sanctum person who leaves them clues to decipher.

          Do you think I am exaggerating?https://www.theatlantic.com/magazine...coming/610567/
          Last edited by bespangeled; 29-05-20, 06:32 AM.
          Can we agree that the writers made everyone do and say everything with a thought to getting good ratings and being renewed. This includes everything we love as well as everything we hate.

          Comment


          • Originally posted by GoSpuffy View Post
            From the outside looking in it appears the strategy is the "Sweden " model but without the education to social distance and wear masks. Like it or not the US is headed for herd immunity no matter what the death toll is in order to save the economy. The problem? Scientist now think covid19 is here like the common cold or Influenza and any future vaccine will be needed every year for protection. All that death for nothing.
            The CDC's most recent report suggests without saying (since governments never admit to futility or ineptitude) that it's spread has proceeded pretty much unimpeded by anything we've been doing. So "all that for nothing" is a glove that fits both hands.
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            • Here in Oakland, where they trashed Walgreens, set Chase
              and the Mercedes-Benz dealership on fire, and did other
              damage—

              Not much, compared to what has been going on in
              Minneapolis, St. Louis, Atlanta, and other cites, but
              as it was a few blocks from where I live—

              I, well, I could only cheer them on:

              Between the way the deaths due to COVI-19
              have distributed themselves; the way the government
              has reacted; the shootings of George Floyd,
              Ahmaud Aubrey, and others; the disproportionate
              reactions of police to the protests (one of my
              neighbors said that they started spraying tear
              gas last night against a group of utterly peaceful
              protesters after they had been standing near
              City Hall for less than an hour... and let us not
              get into the arrest of the Black CNN reporter...);
              the fact that capital has been profiting from the
              pandemic and will profit even more once
              the courts re-open—

              As a writer on Jacobin says:

              https://jacobinmag.com/2020/05/georg...lice-brutality

              (I also recommend the linked piece beside this one,
              by the ever-brilliant Mike Davis, on the hell
              re-opening will damn us to... )


              Given all that, why should people not loot?

              Why should the private property of the
              wealthy be so sacred?

              Nor am I alone: another one of my neighbors told
              me that her parents, who are liberal Ann Arbor
              residents given to react against any shows of
              violence, have been utterly in support of the
              protests—

              And I found much more sympathy for them in
              the comments on that bastion of neo-liberal
              sentiment, The New York Times...

              What this will lead to, I do not know, but
              I can only see it as a good sign, horrid as
              be the incidents that provoked it—


              Comment


              • American Aurora
                American Aurora commented
                Editing a comment
                StateofSiege, some really profound thoughts. I hope this will be a turning point where unmentionable things can be mentioned - but I fear that as the days drag on, people will slowly become desensitized to the protest and only obsess on the looting. It is telling that others are very concerned about raiding a Duane Reade when our country is literally throwing money into a giant maw of corruption financed by our governments and various corporates who seem to view 2020 as the ultimate year of looting the public coffers. As Brecht famously said, why bother robbing a bank when you can found one instead and steal a thousand times more?

                I think part of the problem is that people find it hard - even those who believe themselves to be free of bias - to accept how they are complicit in a system that is so wrapped around the idea of white, male supremacy.

                From vast personal experience, I’ve found that many people who write for the New York Times are actually kinda naive. They’re not uneducated - but they are uninformed, arguing facts that are demonstrably wrong and becoming comically defensive when called on it. I’ve had lunch with about a dozen people over the years who write for the Times (arts, politics, science, Washington Bureau) and it’s amazing how little they know outside of their area of expertise once you scratch the surface. And it’s even more amazing how arrogant they are and how defensive they become about their ignorance - they seem to think that writing for the Times confers a kind of brilliance by association - when in reality, they’re all trust-fund kids of famous writers who got their jobs through connections.

                Whereas I’ve met some really smart people in other venues - I may not always agree with him and I think he wastes too much time snarking online at Democrats these days, but Glenn Greenwald was extremely intelligent and knowledgable when I met him back in the days before Edward Snowden. His then-boyfriend, now-husband David was very charming as well. I wish them well in that hellhole once known as Brazil before their current leader took over.
                Last edited by American Aurora; 02-06-20, 12:37 PM.

              • StateOfSiege97
                StateOfSiege97 commented
                Editing a comment
                thanks upon thanks...
                will have more response to this above and what you have written below soon—
                just want to add now that it so pleases me to read your sense of Glenn Greenwald:
                The Intercept and Al Jazeera (met many writers when i worked in Doha, all
                exceptionally bright, complexly informed, and humble) are my first stops for
                news... Most days, I do not even read the NYT, just skim the headlines, so
                little trust do i have in it... and occasionally write them biting notes, as when
                they compiled a list of the greatest memoirs of the last 50 years—most by english-
                speaking white men—and left off the unspeakably brilliant Memory for Forgetfulness,
                by Mahmoud Darwish... admittedly the list lacked even one Arab writer, but identity-
                concerns aside, thinking—if it be possible—merely aesthetically, thinking of the endlessly
                whelming beauty and sharding insight of the prose, that omission was criminal.... but from what
                you say, what confirms what i suspected, the list-compilers doubtless had never read
                Darwish, one of the greatest Arabic poets (along with Adonis) of the late-20th/early
                21st century———(i also suppose that his being Palestinian did not help... )

            • „When the looting starts, the shooting starts.“

              In a democracy with a concept of the division of powers and constitutional rights of the individual that values the life of each and every single human being this sentence is utterly wrong, vicious and damning.

              When the looting starts the investigation, the arresting and the prosecution should start. Not the shooting. Not any shooting.

              The rift within your country has become deeper and deeper in the last four years and I am wondering if you have reached the point where your country is finally falling apart.

              flow
              ................................ Banner by buffylover

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              • American Aurora
                American Aurora commented
                Editing a comment
                flow,

                I think the comment is an old Nixon quote that someone in Trump’s circle pulled out of thin air, thinking it would endear him to his followers. Agree that it’s an awful thing to say and obviously unconstitutional.

                The rift in our country has been there for a long, long time - it’s just widening now that the majority of America is more diverse than it’s ever been in our history. Sadly, I don’t think it’s getting better any time soon. People are entrenched in their beliefs and there are more converts every day. A friend called last night in horror to report his ex is now spouting Trumpisms and agreeing that they should shoot all the looters.

            • This had me in tears

              https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Vy9io6VEt58&t=207s

              Comment


              • flow
                flow commented
                Editing a comment
                Thank you for posting this. It is an amazingly emotional speech.

            • This is a pretty amazing time in American history - although not unprecedented - and I think it does have historical precedent in how people react in general to the crumbling of social norms through political upheaval or pandemic. Most people live in a kind of manufactured reality in which nothing ever changes and decisions are made based on the assumption that the future will be the same as the present. They concentrate on their social media accounts and their portfolios and their favorite sports and movie stars to create a feeling of comfort and normalcy that doesn’t really exist.

              I think this feeling of comfort has been shattered due to the coronavirus - people unable to go outside, 40 million losing their jobs, health care hanging on a string, the obvious dichotomy between Wall Street and the actual economy for the rest of us - but the destruction of norms has been happening for a long time. Not only the whole impeachment saga and the culture wars of the last four years, but also 9/11, wars abroad, racial, sexual and gender inequity, guns and violence, extreme weather due to climate change and the obvious corruption and extreme inequity in our government, corporations and religious organizations. Demonization of the other side is a large part, as well, in addition to the fact that people are severely uninformed and unable to voice their concerns except through social media and violent political groups that target disaffected people like the White Nationalists.

              Think of the Black Death, the Hundred Years War, the failure of crops, the destruction of whole cultures and rise of nationalism in the 14th century - the reaction caused a series of rebellions by every class as the social norms were utterly shattered. We see this again and again in times of great change - especially when a superpower starts to crumble. From Gandhi’s Salt March to the Storming of the Bastille, there comes a point where people just don’t see any point in adhering to social norms anymore because they are incapable of addressing the present moment.

              What fascinates me is how a march about the police murdering black people has turned into a free-for-all for others to shape and mold into a protest that advances their own political and social views. I’ve read socialists fighting with Black Lives Matter participants as to whether the riots are about not being able to afford the rent or dying through white supremacy - lots of screaming about Bernie Bros and Neoliberals and whether white socialists are “gentrifying” a black protest and the response in calling black people sell-outs and Uncle Toms and what not that sickens my stomach. There are libertarians arguing with alt-right provocateurs about whether this is a stand for freedom or an attack by the radical left - it’s bizarre . The frustration of the black marchers themselves reminds me of the time before the AIDS cocktail in which no one seemed to give a s**t about people dying of AIDS - gay people demanded to be seen and heard. It’s sickening that after the Civil Rights Movement in which so many people suffered and died that African-Americans have to go through this s**t again and again and again to be heard.

              Everywhere you look, from the TV to the internet, there are people rushing to judgment - and to the riots themselves - while claiming that the rioters are fighting for this or that. Watching the riots, it’s almost like watching rival gangs - including the police - as they face off against each other. It’s quite an eyeopener to watch people filter history through their personal beliefs in real time with conspiracy theories that reinforce certain prejudices - and then there’s Trump tweeting threats and the media that’s desperate to both-sides everything on earth and pundits babbling about whether this will help Trump or the Democrats like it’s a big game (which it is to them.)

              Sadly, I think that those hoping this will effect a great change will be sorely disappointed as all I see are people digging in their heels even more and clinging to their own personal beliefs as to what America means and what this all represents. It feels as if people aren’t really discussing the issue at hand - the murder of so many black people through the hands of police and other authorities and the use of those authorities by non-black people as a weapon - but rather debating as to which mythology will be ‘successful’ after it’s all over. I find this extremely off-putting because it takes the spotlight off the issue and makes it all about certain protesters and their aims.

              My country has courted white supremacy from the beginning - the death of George Floyd and so many like him stems from a history of slavery so horrendous and unjust that “the half has never been told” about it - and the unraveling of the mythological tapestry that has been carefully woven to hide that in favor of a specious ‘equality’ is a good thing., I think - if it leads to real reform. The protests were long over-due - but I’m afraid that they’ve devolved into violent skirmishes by protesters of all colors and political beliefs and desires to just wild out. I imagine that once they feel they’ve gotten their message out, they’ll quit and leave the poor urban neighborhoods holding the bag again.

              I feel bad for those who are looting and burning stores and other buildings because it probably feels fantastic to get a little back at faceless and soulless entities that make their lives such a hell, but they are the ones who have to live with it all once the norms are imposed again. And the people who own those stores and work in them aren’t really faceless - they’re people who now have nowhere to work and may have lost everything.

              I remember reading about the riots in Washington DC and how many decades it took for the Black community to recover. Until real reform happens, I’m afraid that no economic or social change - no matter how equitable - will really stop a racial mythology of prejudice and intolerance in this country that seems almost impossible to overcome. As someone famously wrote (or infamously depending on your perspective), what is to be done?
              Last edited by American Aurora; 31-05-20, 11:33 PM.

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              • Just an addendum - watched last night as Trump and his crew created their ridiculous spectacle of walking from the White House to the Church. I suppose that Trump thought it was a show of force, but both my parents and myself were laughing out loud at the sight of elderly, overweight men in ill-fitting suits waddling down the path, obviously fantasizing they were coming off as Patton and his troops. The Chairman of the Joint Chiefs of Staff was wearing his cosplay military costume, but it didn’t help - it just added to the Dr. Strangelove vibe. They looked like a bunch of buffoons out of a Mel Brooks movie - Trump in particular came off as a clown when he held up that bible as if he had never seen a book before - or worse, as if it were on fire and scalding him. All that was missing was a musical score - perhaps the evil Empire music from Star Wars would have been fitting! Or the song from the musical My Fair Lady, “Get Me To The Church On Time!”

                This whole episode reminded me of Great Moments from Medieval Movies when a King, Churchman, Nobleman, Outlaw, Rebel or whatever marches with their Knights to cow the townspeople or court and then holds up a scepter of power or a sword like Excalibur as if it confers authority on them. I would have been more impressed if Trump had walked across a bed of coals or perhaps thrust his hand into a fiery pit to show God was on his side. It was a ridiculous spectacle that only made him look weak and pathetic, especially with his all-white men choir of sycophants surrounding him with the exception of Ivanka, who was tromping along in high heels with an absurdly oversized white purse. As Bugs Bunny would say, whatta bunch of maroons!

                It could have been shown on Comedy Central if it weren’t preceded by one of the most disgusting versions of ‘clear the streets’ that I’ve ever seen. No respect for human life whatsoever. I’m surprised they didn’t use a bulldozer to just shovel people out of the way so the Grand Poobah and his crew of misfit toys could make an appearance outside of Trump’s underground Bunker.

                This nursery rhyme making the rounds on Twitter this morning says it all about Trump’s legacy:

                A man got scared.
                He went and hid.
                When people laughed,
                Here's what he did.
                He tear gassed folks
                Then walked around
                And held a Bible upside down.
                Last edited by American Aurora; 02-06-20, 12:45 PM.

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                • American Aurora it was honestly one of the most bizarre things I have ever seen. The way he held that bible... the poses... everything... just insane. It looked so ludicrous there's a disconnect in my brain from recognising this as actual real life. A part of me feels like it has to be some comedy skit or something.

                  Of course, it'd be a lot more comical if it weren't for the fact that I then also watched the footage of the police breaking up a completely peaceful protest through flash bombs and tear gas to clear the street so that this disgusting POS could have his ludicrous, clownish photo op. The rage I felt watching that footage is indescriable.

                  I honestly hope he rots in hell if such a place exists. What vile people they all are.
                  "The earth is doomed!" - Banner by Nina

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                  • All said regarding writers, producers, actors, directors, viewers, readers, etc. are what I remember, my opinions, etc.



                    I'll probably get to the posts since my last post later.



                    * I'm watching The Plot Against America and it's pretty good.


                    * I'm frustrated with the so-called 'liberals' and so-called 'progressives' who say or think there isn't considerable difference between US Vice President Joseph Biden and US President Donald Trump. I don't think it was right or okay for US President Barack Obama to essentially hand the Democratic Presidential Nomination to US VP Biden. In ways, VP Biden is possibly more conservative than US Secretary of State Hillary Clinton was. But he's possibly making some moves 'to the Left' in the General Election.

                    US President Donald Trump is trying to become a dictator and possibly even a hereditary Monarch. US President Trump cares about himself, his daughter Ivanka Trump, and...?


                    * A problem in the United States is that many people think they are richer, more important, more powerful, more special, etc. than they actually are. And some in the upper-middle class and higher want those lower to feel bad about wanting Universal Health Care, universal free college and university, universal child care, etc. And many of these upper-middle class people themselves can barely afford or cannot actually afford higher education for their children, heath care if they get an 'expensive' illness or need, etc.


                    * I'm generally against violent riots, but I understand the frustration of those who live with the fear that a police officer can simply kill them and likely 'get away with it'.

                    There has been curfews in Los Angeles County these past few days and there's one tonight.


                    * Unless actually threatened with death, it's simply not okay for a cop to use anything near deadly force against someone. They are supposed to Protect and Serve the people, not Protect and Serve themselves.
                    Last edited by MikeB; 02-06-20, 11:26 PM.

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                    • All said regarding writers, producers, actors, directors, viewers, readers, etc. are what I remember, my opinions, etc.



                      https://www.theatlantic.com/ideas/ar...better/612442/

                      I pretty much agree with everything Arnold Schwarzenegger says in this article.


                      I never thought he did a bad job as Governor of California and he'd certainly be a better US President than US President George Walker Bush and US President Donald Trump.

                      Comment


                      • Can Trump still win in November?


                        “I like who I am when I’m with him. I like who we are together.”

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                        • Of course he can. At the moment the polls say he will win about 42% of the votes.

                          42% of American voters are still going to vote for him after the US is literally in ashes at the end of his first term. That’s almost half of the votes and the numbers may easily shift in his favor.

                          flow
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