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  • #16
    As a practical matter, American elected public servants live more like aristocracy than actual literal aristocrats in most of the world. I mean, when William and Kate go to visit Canada, they fly commercially, their "motorcade" is probably 2-3 vehicles. It's definitely a moment to think that we've somehow gotten ourselves turned around in these United States on our priorities.

    EDIT: I'm much rather see separate and cumulative term limits for all federal elected office. Like two six year terms for a President, two six year terms for a Senator, six two year terms for the House, and a cumulative limit on terms that can be completed within 24 years. I think a quarter century is more than enough for any one citizen to wield great political power over the others.
    Last edited by KingofCretins; 20-01-19, 07:46 PM.
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    • #17
      TriBel

      * The Industrial Revolution didn’t start in the United States until after the Civil War.

      The Industrial Revolution started in the United Kingdom largely because a relatively large amount of coal was found and because Queen Victoria and Prince Albert championed ‘modernization’ and allowed for the business and finance classes to become more powerful relative to the peerage and aristocracy.



      KingofCretins

      As a practical matter, American elected public servants live more like aristocracy than actual literal aristocrats in most of the world.
      That depends on which aristocrat. The House of Saud has perhaps thousands of members and collectively they are worth around $2T. The Rothschild family are likely worth much more and they have enormous political, media, and economic influence.

      The royalty of the Middle Eastern countries live very well.

      There are still princes in Italy and they live in palaces.

      The aristocracy of the United Kingdom still live very well. Many of the better off ones still own their estates and simply ‘give tours’ of such estates or made some into hotels or whatever. Some aristocrats have billions of dollars.

      The United States doesn’t have true aristocrats, but many of ‘old money’ live much better than almost all politicians. Donald Trump is only first-or-second generation money and The White House is a step down for him in terms of luxury living.

      I mean, when William and Kate go to visit Canada, they fly commercially, their "motorcade" is probably 2-3 vehicles. It's definitely a moment to think that we've somehow gotten ourselves turned around in these United States on our priorities.
      But William is going to inherit Buckingham Palace and other palaces, 100s of 1,000s of acres of land, etc. William and Kate live very well.

      EDIT: I'm much rather see separate and cumulative term limits for all federal elected office. Like two six year terms for a President, two six year terms for a Senator, six two year terms for the House, and a cumulative limit on terms that can be completed within 24 years. I think a quarter century is more than enough for any one citizen to wield great political power over the others.
      The problem is there aren’t actually many willing and able to be great politicians.

      Nancy Pelosi is the most powerful Speaker of the United States House of Representatives ever and she’s the best Speaker of the last… what over 30 years?

      You can fix things in the US Senate and US House by lessening the privilege given to “seniority”.

      People forget, but Harry Reid was a Conservative Democrat and was elevated because the US had moved right. Senator Chuck Schumer is incredibly weak and pathetic and is the worst Minority Leader in the Senate since… I don’t know.

      But, really, the idea of term limits is incredibly stupid. Nowadays, the “best” mostly don’t run for office because they would rather make money and simply use their money to influence politics. Warren Buffett didn’t want to be US Treasury Secretary and didn’t want to be the Chairman of the Federal Reserve.

      Anyway, there are no “term limits” for business-people.

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      • #18
        Originally posted by MikeB View Post
        TriBel

        * The Industrial Revolution didn’t start in the United States until after the Civil War.
        The Industrial Revolution started in the North well before
        the Civil War—this was one of the advantages (along with
        the slave work slow-down in the South) that assured that
        the North would eventually win. In Lincoln's Second
        Inaugural, his vision of the future is all but backed by
        the humming chorus of industrial force and capital....

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        • #19
          Originally posted by MikeB View Post
          But, really, the idea of term limits is incredibly stupid. Nowadays, the “best” mostly don’t run for office because they would rather make money and simply use their money to influence politics. Warren Buffett didn’t want to be US Treasury Secretary and didn’t want to be the Chairman of the Federal Reserve.
          We are not the kind of Gattaca nightmare technocracy you dream of, and honestly if the day comes that someone tries to install it by force, that day will go very badly for them. Nobody out there "deserves" to be in charge of the government, which by definition means meddling force over the lives of others. It's something you should be chosen to do by your peers, for a time, and then go back to living your own life.

          Anyway, there are no “term limits” for business-people.
          Why would there be? People who run businesses, or simply work for them, are looking out for their own livelihood, they aren't wielding the force of law over others.
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          • #20
            MikeB:

            The Industrial Revolution didn’t start in the United States until after the Civil War
            .

            LOL! I don't give a bugger when it started in the States - you cited Victoria.

            The Industrial Revolution started in the United Kingdom largely because a relatively large amount of coal was found and because Queen Victoria and Prince Albert championed ‘modernization’ and allowed for the business and finance classes to become more powerful relative to the peerage and aristocracy.
            "Industrial Revolution, in modern history, the process of change from an agrarian and handicraft economy to one dominated by industry and machine manufacturing. This process began in Britain in the 18th century and from there spread to other parts of the world. Although used earlier by French writers, the term Industrial Revolution was first popularized by the English economic historian Arnold Toynbee (1852–83) to describe Britain’s economic development from 1760 to 1840" The term's been widened in its usage since Toynbee. https://www.britannica.com/event/Industrial-Revolution

            Victoria didn't come to the throne until 1837. She might have supported modernization (I dunno - I don't pay much attention to royalty) but she didn't start it. The catalysts for it were technological, socioeconomic, and cultural. They went hand-in-hand.
            Last edited by TriBel; 27-01-19, 09:36 PM.
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            • #21
              Canada is a constitutional monarchy and the queen is the head of state only as a figure head. The Governor General is appointed by the Canadian prime minister to represent the queen so the queen has no real power. We send gifts for weddings and babies and finance the odd royal visit but I don't think the monarchy costs us that much. My google search says it costs us $1.53 per person each year which is about the cost of a cup of coffee. I'm good with that as I think we get a lot of financial benefits being in the common wealth and I do think of England as having a special relationship with us that I wouldn't want to lose. On my mums side I'm only second generation Canadian and I still have English cousins so that may influence the feeling of closeness I have towards Great Britain.


              “I like who I am when I’m with him. I like who we are together.”

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