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What's On Your Mind? Part 2

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  • StateOfSiege97 - they could have just said rats are abject. We knew that. See Stoney told you so! If we were meant to like rats they wouldn't have beady eyes.
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    • Priceless
      Priceless commented
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      And those tails!

  • Originally posted by TriBel View Post
    StateOfSiege97 - they could have just said rats are abject. We knew that. See Stoney told you so! If we were meant to like rats they wouldn't have beady eyes.
    no i couldn't—

    becoming-animal is not in
    the least about abjection—

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    • StateOfSiege97 - I didn't mean rats were intrinsically abject. I meant they're excluded by society because they can't be included without constituting a threat to meaning. It always seems to me that becoming is a way of recuperating that which is socially abjected.


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      • Snakes are also truly horrible as are spiders. And I can also share a bad 70s song to back me up.
         


        “I like who I am when I’m with him. I like who we are together.”

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        • Great song! Thanks for sharing GoSpuffy

          I don't mind spiders too much. I'd never kill them, they go outside if they're in the bath. If they're in the corner of a room, they're fine.

          Snakes are bit scarier

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          • Originally posted by TriBel View Post
            StateOfSiege97 - I didn't mean rats were intrinsically abject. I meant they're excluded by society because they can't be included without constituting a threat to meaning. It always seems to me that becoming is a way of recuperating that which is socially abjected.
            but that is not what D&G are saying—

            they do write that

            there is a circulation of impersonal affects, an alternate current that disrupts signifying projects as well as subjective feelings, and constitutes a nonhuman sexuality; and there is an irresistible deterritorialization that forestalls attempts at professional, conjugal, or Oedipal reterritorialization. (Are there Oedipal animals with which one can "play Oedipus," play family, my little dog, my little cat, and then other animals that by contrast draw us into an irresistible becoming? Or another hypothesis: Can the same animal be taken up by two opposing functions and movements, depending upon the case?)
            but to disrupt signifying projects as well as subjective feelings and
            constitute a nonhuman sexuality
            is not, for them, to threaten all sense—

            and, for them, this disruption, this eruption of a nunhuman sexualtiy,
            this is certainly not a bad thing, for all that it carries grave, engraving risks—

            further—

            becoming is not "a way of recuperating that which is socially abjected":

            first, D&G do not think in terms of abjection—

            second, becomings-animal, -woman, molecular, -impersonal do not involve the abject—

            nor do they involve any process of recuperation—

            i simply do not understand what speaks, to you, recuperation in this:


            the incredible feeling of an unknown Nature—affect. For the affect is not a personal feeling, nor is it a characteristic; it is the effectuation of a power of the pack that throws the self into upheaval and makes it reel. Who has not known the violence of these animal sequences, which uproot one from humanity, if only for an instant, making one scrape at one's bread like a rodent or giving one the yellow eyes of a feline? A fearsome involution calling us toward unheard-of becomings?
            becomings-animal, -etc. set off lines of flight, deterritorializations...
            and while these are subject to reterritorializations, the recuperations
            lie in the latter, not in the becomings—

            the moments of recuperation in Willard occur when Willard errs in
            bringing Ben and his beloved to the Office and then submits to the
            given human order and allows his co-workers to kill the
            beloved, first, and, second, when he approaches
            conjugalization with the young lady, which would have bound
            him back into the order of filiation, the Oedipal order reaching
            back to his mother....

            becomings sever those lines of filiation, rupture their time
            into futurity: that is what makes them unheard of


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            • I know people love Neil Gaiman, but I've always thought he was a bit of a dick. Just wanted to get that out there.

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              • Double Dutchess
                Double Dutchess commented
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                Is there a specific reason why you think so?

              • Priceless
                Priceless commented
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                There's something creepy about him... open marriage and all that. I'd like to know how he gets on with his older kids. He should have stayed in NZ at least to be near his kid instead of flying to Scotland in the middle of a pandemic like a narcissistic billionaire.

            • Originally posted by Priceless View Post
              I know people love Neil Gaiman, but I've always thought he was a bit of a dick. Just wanted to get that out there.
              I never liked him and I never could get into his writing style. I read two of his books with difficulty. Most of the time I didn't know what I was reading because my thoughts just drifted away.
              Call me old fashioned, but I don't understand open marriages. Why do they even get married in the first place?

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              • Originally posted by redtent View Post

                I never liked him and I never could get into his writing style. I read two of his books with difficulty. Most of the time I didn't know what I was reading because my thoughts just drifted away.
                Call me old fashioned, but I don't understand open marriages. Why do they even get married in the first place?
                He's incredibly popular, so he must be good, though it's not my thing.

                I don't understand open marriages either. I think you must be psychologically tough to live like that. I think they can only lead to jealousy. Worse when you have kids too I suspect. Do your other partners come to your home? Are you all mixing together? Very unsettling for kids. And of course if your 'others' aren't allowed to your home and have to meet in hotels etc. and can't be part of your life, well that's gonna breed all sorts of nasty feelings. It's all far too complicated.

                How does Gaiman know he's the child's father? Have they had a paternity test? Maybe he doesn't care, but it'd always be at the back of my mind if I were him.

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                • redtent
                  redtent commented
                  Editing a comment
                  Yes, exactly. I ask myself these questions too. All the people involved must have a different mindset about these things that we do.

              • I'm on another forum (mainly about parenting) and there once was a user who lived in polyamorous relationships. Over time she told a bit about her life and it was really fascinating. She was married to a woman and they had two kids together. While her wife was pregnant with child no. 3 she met another woman who was married to a guy. They also had two or three kids. She fell in love with this other woman and they started a relationship. She said while they were still having different places her girlfriend would come over to her place for a date and her wife would go over to her girlfriend's place and watch tv with her girlfriend's husband.

                Then they moved into a large flat altogether (four adults, four or five kids, and a baby on the way) and shortly after she fell in love with a man. Her wife was very relaxed about these new developments but it didn't sit too well with her girlfriend. After breaking this news, she stopped posting because someone in real life had notified Social Services and she was afraid she would not be able to adopt her third kid after birth. I don't know how this is handled in the UK or the US but in Germany still today if two women - even if they are married - have a baby the one who did not give birth has to adopt the baby to become a legal parent. She didn't want to endanger the adoption by publishing stories about her unconventional lifestyle online.

                To me, this sounded all very exhilarating and intense. However, it didn't sound as if there was more happiness than you can find in a monogamous relationship. And to be quiet honest it also sounded very exhausting.

                flow
                Last edited by flow; 19-05-20, 08:59 PM.
                ................................ Banner by buffylover

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                • debbicles
                  debbicles commented
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                  Not to mention confusing. What if you forgot where you were or who you were with? I’ve often wondered if multiple relationships aren’t harder work.

              • Thanks flow, that's really fascinating. (By the way, I think the adoption for the non-parent is the same in the UK as it is in Germany). I worry about the mental health of the partner who's not poly, and has to watch soaps with the husband, while the wife is getting her leg over in their bed. I do think some people would agree to anything because they love their partner so much hand don't want to lose them, no matter what. I know no relationship is completely fair and equal, but a poly relationship must be even less so.

                I am probably being incredibly judgemental, but it sounds really immature and selfish to me and I would worry about the kids. Yeah, I know 'it takes a village' but the villagers aren't all shagging one another

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                • What’s wrong with rats? Nothing!

                  I have been a New Yorkers for years and rats are just a part of life. When you go into the subway, there are rats running around everywhere in the tracks - dozens of them. Many climb up to the platform and sniff for food. When you walk down the streets, rats play in the garbage and you can see Momma and her line of trailing baby rats crossing the street like geese every now and then. Every Broadway theater has a nest of rats kept in check by a theater cat. Everyone ignores rats - some call them ground pigeons. They never attack or even notice people - I remember one rat was supping on spilled alcohol and making zig-zag lines into the pathway, forcing people off. The only people who freak out over rats in NYC are tourists.

                  Of course, the rats in New York generally aren’t that big with a few exceptions - some are black-and-white or calico and as cute as mice. It’s in Germany that I witnessed the Mac Truck rats, huge furry beasts the size of a large cat that brazenly trotted up to nip my (safely in steel-toed boots) toes. This was at the train station near Augsburg - and it began to make sense to me why rats are so frightening in The Grimm Brothers stories and why the Pied Piper was so essential.

                  I guess it also explains this story:

                  https://www.abc.net.au/news/2019-02-...cuers/10852558

                  Now roaches and spiders on the other hand - everyone hates them and has an exterminator once a month to make sure they never, ever show up.
                  Last edited by American Aurora; 19-05-20, 12:05 PM.

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                  • Priceless
                    Priceless commented
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                    Seagulls are so brazen. Glad you got a free bun, that was very fair of the cafe.

                  • debbicles
                    debbicles commented
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                    I like spiders. I’m the family pest control officer, I catch wasps, spiders, mice and other beasties. I even found a hornet in our house a few months ago.

                  • Priceless
                    Priceless commented
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                    I like mice when they're not in the house lol.

                • Read the Hunger Games prequel The Ballad of Songbirds and Snakes. Liked it well enough, I know it's YA but I didn't buy into the romance angle at all. I did however appreciate so of the world-building and early history, along with the less refined early Games compared to what they are in the main series. It also made Snow interesting and slightly sympathetic in one or two moments, but it doesn't make excuses for him. He also still holds his superiority and oppressive beliefs basically the entire novel; so it avoids cliche of making the villain a good person until 1 event changes them forever.

                  And also, a few moments are going to look cool for a movie. They've already hired a director and screenplay team I believe.

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                  • Never read any of those dystopian dramas. Are they aimed at readers older than young adult? Did it work for you?

                    I’m reading about Anne Lister, the subject of “Gentleman Jack”. I just found Suranne Jones’ portrayal of her so exhilarating and appealing that I decided to find out more about her. The decoded diaries are apparently on a UNESCO register.

                    Also, less seriously I’m rewatching The Vicar Of Dibley and Absolutely Fabulous. When I was getting better a few weeks back but wasn’t well enough to get out of bed, they stopped me from losing my mind and getting over the fit of the blues being ill can bring in its wake.

                    also we have in the UK a comedy about a Jewish family and their bonkers neighbour, Friday Night Dinner. It’s very funny, indeed.

                    stay well, all.

                    Last edited by debbicles; 20-05-20, 01:55 PM.
                    You know what I am. You've always known. You come to me all the same.

                    "There's a lot of comedy to be gotten from the world's doom spiral right now." Tracey Ullman, June 2018

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                    • Originally posted by debbicles View Post
                      Never read any of those dystopian dramas. Are they aimed at readers older than young adult? Did it work for you?

                      I’m reading about Anne Lister, the subject of “Gentleman Jack”. I just found Suranne Jones’ portrayal of her so exhilarating and appealing that I decided to find out more about her. The decoded diaries are apparently on a UNESCO register.

                      Also, less seriously I’m rewatching The Vicar Of Dibley and Absolutely Fabulous. When I was getting better a few weeks back but wasn’t well enough to get out of bed, they stopped me from losing my mind and getting over the fit of the blues being ill can bring in its wake.

                      also we have in the UK a comedy about a Jewish family and their bonkers neighbour, Friday Night Dinner. It’s very funny, indeed.

                      stay well, all.

                      Back in Hunger Games heyday I was in the target demographic so I might be a bit biased. Adults seem to enjoy the series and the world as well, it's just not as widespread as family friendly Harry Potter because of all the violence, most of which is realistic particularly with guns in the 3rd novel. Many of the adult reviewers for the prequel have expressed similar views to mine. The original series tended to knock the protagonist out as way to move the plot a bit too much. The prequel avoids it but the 3rd and final part of the prequel almost feels like a different story. Although since the prequel is an antagonist's story; it does end pretty well to show you him embracing his evil side, particularly with what happens to the heroic foil character. The author is also a bit more "tell not show" at times. I still find it enjoyable overall though.

                      General consensus is the first two books The Hunger Games and Catching Fire are still the strongest. Mockingjay also has good moments and overall works as an ending despite some flaws. If you're interested, start with the trilogy. Reading the prequel first could be done but I don't recommend it. It'd be like watching all of Angel without ever seeing any Buffy first. You'd follow it but miss some crucial parts.

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