True or False?

[MikeB]

All said regarding writers, producers, actors, directors, viewers, readers, etc. are what I remember, my opinions, etc.



* Maybe referring to the Scooby Gang as 'the popular group' doesn't have an answer.

So dismiss that Statement. Here's a better one:


STATEMENT: The Scoobies were no longer 'unpopular' after "Bewitched, Bothered, & Bewildered" (B 2.16) largely because Cordelia Chase decided to essentially ditch Harmony Kendall and Co. in favor of continuing to date Xander Harris and associate with Buffy and Co.

[Priceless]

True - As to your first statement Mike B, I don't think the scoobies were ever popular, they were too self contained to really judge, but the social station of Xander and Willow had obviously grown, with the addition of Buffy and Cordy.


Statement - Season 5 was the best season for Charles Gunn

[MikeB]

All said regarding writers, producers, actors, directors, viewers, readers, etc. are what I remember, my opinions, etc.




* I'll eventually respond to the entire thread.



Priceless

* Referring to the Scoobies as the 'popular group' may be a stretch; it's much less a stretch to say the Scoobies were all relatively popular after "Bewitched, Bothered, & Bewildered" (B 2.16), especially in BtVS S3. While possibly not as popular as the 'Harmony Group', Harmony Kendall noticeably didn't try to become Homecoming Queen. If Buffy hadn't entered the race, Cordelia Chase would have been Homecoming Queen. It's essentially implied that while Cordelia was possibly still the most popular person in Sunnydale High, Buffy Anne Summers was a close second and may be even was now the most popular.

Daniel Osbourne is always considered 'cool'. Xander Harris was dating Cordelia and Willow Rosenberg was dating Oz.



ANSWER

False. Even though he was being used by Jasmine, Charles Gunn is probably the most happy and fulfilled in AtS s2 and AtS s3.

In AtS S5, his actions result in Winifred Burkle's death and he's miserable for much of the season.



STATEMENT

* Willow Rosenberg was only self-conscious in her looks and sex appeal because she compared herself only to those like Cordelia Chase and Buffy Summers.

It took Spike's telling her in "The Initiative" (B 4.07) that he's sexually attracted to her for her to consider herself sexually attractive and thereafter she's no longer self-conscious in her looks. Even in "Restless" (B 4.22), she's only concerned people would still consider her "uncool".

[Stoney]

* I'll eventually respond to the entire thread.

That's not how this thread works MikeB. Whomever gets to respond to the statement first has done so, it isn't one where you go through afterwards and provide all your own answers to everything!


False. Willow wasn't confident for a whole bunch of reasons other than how she perceived herself compared to others (generally and specific to some) and that included having her own sense of self criticism for how she presented herself in personality terms as well as how she was responded to by her peers. Xander's lack of interest in her probably had a specific impact in how she felt as well. Yes, Spike's assurance that he thought she was attractive was presented as being a balm at the point when she was feeling insecure because of Oz having left after being unfaithful but Oz's original interest in her and her relationship with Tara did far more for her than Spike's assurance during an attempt to attack her. Her dream in Restless reveals that she is fearful that everything about how she presents herself is a disguise for still being the same underneath and that very much included how she looked/presented herself as a ruse and the responses of those she loved (Tara and Oz) were a part of the ridicule/rejection that she feared so I think it incorporated more than just seeming uncool.

Statement: The idea of the magic council should have been concluded and 'put away' at the end of S10 rather than established as a responsibility that then appeared to have been just dropped.

[Priceless]

True. I think the issue is that Trump got elected and Joss wanted to write something about his policies, so we got S11, which I absolutely loved, but it did forget virtually everything that had happened in the previous season.

Statement - Buffy loved Spike in S6

[flow]

Sadly false. She had feelings for him, but she could not and did not love him, because he had no soul.

Statement: Spike still came over to Revello Drive in season 6 to visit Dawn and that explains, why she asks him if he won’t come over anymore after Entropy.

flow

[Stoney]

False. Although I like the idea (a lot) I think Dawn is referring to times Spike came around generally spurred by seeing Buffy rather than to see her specifically. I think Spike's reaction to being excluded from the resurrection plans, his focus on Buffy and Dawn's sense of isolation are significant parts of the season that Spike going around time to time to see Dawn would undermine. I wish he had been though.

Statement: I appreciate they couldn't show everyone interacting, but after sharing a title and being major supporting characters for each other at different points Angel and Faith should have had a few panels together in the final season (or if they did and I've forgotten, more memorable ones!).

[Priceless]

True - but then again every character should have had more in S12. I liked the Willow/Faith panels but I'd have hoped for more from everyone, but as the party line goes 'we only had 4 issues'

Statement - Angel didn't do enough to help Cordy in S5, with the whole of W&H behind him, surely there should have been a way to wake Cordy

[Nina]

False, I'm pretty sure she got all the medical attention she could get. The alternative is messing around with time (is going back in time even possible in the Buffyverse?) or the kind of magic you shouldn't be messing around with. I don't believe that anyone should do that. Sometimes you've to accept that people will not recover again.



'Home' is the best final episode of an Ats season.

[Puppet]

False, it's one of the worst. It does not fit in with the mood of S4 at all and should have been the first episode of S5, instead.

Statement: The Potentials should have started trickling in by the 3rd episode of S7, maybe then we would have cared more about them.

[Priceless]

False. I like Season 7 just as it is, and the potentials didn't need anymore air time

Statement - Season 12 was pointless and added nothing to the story of Buffy

[Stoney]

False. (I think!) I haven't reread it yet and worked out all my points of view and thoughts on it all yet, but I'm going with false. The future for Fray (time travel in BtVS Nina) was literally amended and it appeared to be for the better. I think it can also be looked on for progression for Buffy too in that she accepted another aspect of her own character in seeing that she doesn't actual want a quiet life. She wants/needs to integrate both aspects of her world, 'normal' and supernatural, as she has been steadily facing over the years sure, but it is more than that. She doesn't enjoy the down time and wants to keep herself busier when she isn't fighting literal demons too. The emphasis on the idea that you can always reassess and change your situation and reshape your future gave a level of hopefulness to her outlook that I think she has lacked before. There was a hint of it at the end of S7 when they changed the slayer rules of succession, but she felt so uncertain of how to reshape her life that it went fairly off the rails in the initial attempts. A few years later and she is altering her life again but there is a sense of comfort/ease to doing so that she has lacked before. She started S12 misjudging what was bothering her as illustrated by the split with Spike that she said early on she then saw wasn't the problem, but by the end of the season she has reconsidered and established something that she wants to try instead for herself. And, I'd argue, the clear ongoing affection between her and Spike and their talk of wanting to be in each others lives still, of having time apart for 'a bit', all really underlined that focus on the future always being something which can be reconsidered and reshaped. This the Fray altered timeline underscored.

Statement: Retconning Warren and Rack's deaths undermined the darkness of Willow's S6 arc.

[flow]

Absolutely true. And it was done for no valid reason because neither Warren nor Rack fulfilled any purpose after their deaths were retconned.

Statement: Fred ending up in a hell dimension in season12 is not only ironic, because that`s where Angel rescued her from years ago. It also means, that his fear has come true - nothing he does matters.

MikeB:

I'll eventually respond to the entire thread.

If there is a statement or an answer to ist, that you want to respond to in more detail, you can of course always open a separate thread for it!

flow

[Stoney]

False. Fred went into that battle alongside Illyria and went through the portal willingly. I think it's made clear that she is on board and of course she knew there was a chance that they wouldn't make it (although as part Old One, isn't the chance of her being killed questionable?). We'd seen in other seasons too that Fred and Illyria were aware of what the other was doing and could even assert themselves if they wanted. So you could argue that Angel freeing her and her joining AI and getting hollowed out by Illyria then resurrected with the new seed all led to being there at that moment and being able to do what they did together. Consequently it could be seen as proof what Angel did does matter, as does her choice to fight and sacrifice herself heroically to protect her friends.

Statement: It was ridiculous to change the Vampyr book into this powerful magical item when it was never presented as anything special before.

[bespangeled]

True - because I don't read the comics

The Mayor was the first person who ever loved and coddled Faith

[Priceless]

False. I think he was the first person who Faith though loved her, but it was a strange sort of love that involved a lot of manipulation.

Statement - We should have seen more of Olivia and the Giles/Olivia relationship

[Puppet]

True. As it stands, we don't care much about her or the fact that Giles (probably) lost her due to his secret coming out, and that was bad writing. We should care about every character, regardless of screen time.

Statement: Giles was unable to move on from Jenny because he didn't get any closure, not because she was his soulmate/true love.

[Priceless]

Disagree. I think Giles did move on from Jenny. Being a watcher kept him from marrying Olivia and having kids, not his devotion to Jenny.

Statement - Angel's most interesting relationship on either show was with Spike

[TimeTravellingBunny]

Obviously not true or false as it's a matter of opinion. But I disagree, since I think his most interesting relationship was with Darla.
His relationship Spike might be second. There were times when their relationship was incredibly interesting and complex, but also other times when it was just stereotypical dick-measuring, testosterone-filled pissing contest, or lame buddy comedy.

Statement: Viewers would have a lot more sympathy for Xander and wouldn't judge him so harsh for his immature decisions and remarks, if he had been played by an age appropriate actor, or at least one that looked like a teenage boy in seasons 1-3 and a 21 year old in season 6.

[Stoney]

Disagree. It is an interesting idea, whether it would have changed some people's perceptions, but I think generally people not considering the context and age of the character when the whole setting is about being young and growing up are choosing to not look sympathetically towards him.

Statement: Jonathan's canon story finishing with a regressed/resurrected version of himself as a vengeance demon is disappointing.